acesandates Wrote:
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> All this bellyaching about the Apostolic ministry
> of John Robert Stevens. Regrets that you opened
> yourselves to the charismatic ecstasy of the
> living word flowing through him back then,
> especially in the late 60s and early 70s.
Yes, many of us did open up to the charismatic ego of one John Robert Stevens. And we bare the scars to prove it. No bellyaches, however. At least with me.
JRS
> JRS carried, indeed incarnated, the presence of
> Christ.
No he didn't. He was a man, completely fallible. His exaltation by the fellowship into God status was the root of much of the problems that walk, and later TLWF, faced. He did, obviously have a gift for preaching. But unfortunately, he routinely used it manipulate the congregation into more and more sacrifice that benefited him personally. .
> Was the apostolic movement a perfectly
> organized religious operation or corporation? No.
Not only was it not perfect, it was barely functional. It simply surrounded and enabled controlling leadership. Note: You didn't remain in a position of authority without echoing the message of the leaders...even if that message changed day by day.
> But the Spirit and the cross of Jesus moved on us, in us,
> through us. And the revelation came.
'The cross' was often the beat down of people for not doing or being what leadership dictated. The cross of Jesus was non-existent. The cross was infused by love. Revelation? Please.
> And its salvation was immediate, concrete and transforming
> of our being-in-the-world.
This is beginning to sound like a press release for the current administration. Wow, that's some hyperbole!
> Nobody from "The Walk" coerced us or tried to about anything.
Your experience was rare. Congrats. The Walk I experienced, and many on this board, was filled with coercion--implicit and explicit. I think being told you were going to be killed for not conducting yourself in a certain manner qualifies as coercion.
> We were all advised if you recall,to calculate the
> cost/risk-benefit. After which we then put our
> hands to the plow.
The risks were veiled. They were only revealed after a person became immersed into culture. Trust me...if from the outset you were told this movement had 'the Apostle to the Kingdom', there were Nephilim resisting his ministry (among them, his wife), we were to pray for their death (or the death of the spirit moving through them, a distinction many of us struggle with)asp)...and that our acceptance, in practice, depended upon our complete submission to the authority structure (the practice of 'divine order')...and that many of us would forgo our own financial security by giving to the 'upward flow"...(seek first to serve the apostle)...very few of us would have become involved.
> So I, for one, miss the Apostle, and Brother RD Cronquist, thank them, and
> I was a nobody, just someone coming to a corrogated sheet metal pole barn
> with hay on the floor.
Your motivation may have been pure. But the motivation of those that used the labor and goodwill of the people was not. All the money that flowed into the accounts of ones like John was not put to the use of building the 'kingdom.' There was certainly a wide disparity between the finances and personal liberty of walk leadership, and the worker bees that populated the organization.
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> All this bellyaching about the Apostolic ministry
> of John Robert Stevens. Regrets that you opened
> yourselves to the charismatic ecstasy of the
> living word flowing through him back then,
> especially in the late 60s and early 70s.
Yes, many of us did open up to the charismatic ego of one John Robert Stevens. And we bare the scars to prove it. No bellyaches, however. At least with me.
JRS
> JRS carried, indeed incarnated, the presence of
> Christ.
No he didn't. He was a man, completely fallible. His exaltation by the fellowship into God status was the root of much of the problems that walk, and later TLWF, faced. He did, obviously have a gift for preaching. But unfortunately, he routinely used it manipulate the congregation into more and more sacrifice that benefited him personally. .
> Was the apostolic movement a perfectly
> organized religious operation or corporation? No.
Not only was it not perfect, it was barely functional. It simply surrounded and enabled controlling leadership. Note: You didn't remain in a position of authority without echoing the message of the leaders...even if that message changed day by day.
> But the Spirit and the cross of Jesus moved on us, in us,
> through us. And the revelation came.
'The cross' was often the beat down of people for not doing or being what leadership dictated. The cross of Jesus was non-existent. The cross was infused by love. Revelation? Please.
> And its salvation was immediate, concrete and transforming
> of our being-in-the-world.
This is beginning to sound like a press release for the current administration. Wow, that's some hyperbole!
> Nobody from "The Walk" coerced us or tried to about anything.
Your experience was rare. Congrats. The Walk I experienced, and many on this board, was filled with coercion--implicit and explicit. I think being told you were going to be killed for not conducting yourself in a certain manner qualifies as coercion.
> We were all advised if you recall,to calculate the
> cost/risk-benefit. After which we then put our
> hands to the plow.
The risks were veiled. They were only revealed after a person became immersed into culture. Trust me...if from the outset you were told this movement had 'the Apostle to the Kingdom', there were Nephilim resisting his ministry (among them, his wife), we were to pray for their death (or the death of the spirit moving through them, a distinction many of us struggle with)asp)...and that our acceptance, in practice, depended upon our complete submission to the authority structure (the practice of 'divine order')...and that many of us would forgo our own financial security by giving to the 'upward flow"...(seek first to serve the apostle)...very few of us would have become involved.
> So I, for one, miss the Apostle, and Brother RD Cronquist, thank them, and
> I was a nobody, just someone coming to a corrogated sheet metal pole barn
> with hay on the floor.
Your motivation may have been pure. But the motivation of those that used the labor and goodwill of the people was not. All the money that flowed into the accounts of ones like John was not put to the use of building the 'kingdom.' There was certainly a wide disparity between the finances and personal liberty of walk leadership, and the worker bees that populated the organization.