Chaos1952
I did see that you did find the other group some time ago I jsut got approved to join. But since this is here I want to address a few things from my perspective. in case someone else can beneift from waht I have to say.
JRS was an alcoholic. I saw attempts to cover it up like they did other alcohol and drug issues in Anaheim. ( My late ex husband was one that was covered up as well.) Fact: there were a number over dsoe deats adn suicides. I have no idea how many arrests for drug dealing in Anaheim.
People new, yet nothing was done. (After a point the pfierfers did offer counceling to couples who were dealing with the substance/ alc issues and apeared to have the perfect kingdom marriage. Brenda said, "We are all children of an alcohlic father." That was in repsonce to my lament that I thought my kingdom marriage would be like Father's Know Best. That beloved actor looked perfect dad on TV but had a lot of horrible secrets due to his alcoholism
My work schedule as an RN dictated when i arrived or left a meeting. This accidnetally afforde me the oppotunity to see when the enterage arrived. They were lieterally carrying him in like you would pour a drug into a taxi when the bar closed.
I asked some one. (I had already known since the alte 60's that he loved fine liquor. My family was a guest in his home back when.)
The answer given to me was that JRS was under heavy assualt from neph spirits trying to kill him. I may be naive but I am pretty sure I know a realy drunk person when I see one no matter how they try to deny it.
On a personal level I was dealling with a drunk in my home. When I went to the brothers for ministry they called me a "bitch". They were all covering for thier own addictions.
In my opinion, Martha was having a problem dealing with her own alcoholic far before I married a sneaky drunk who talked liek an oricle from God.
There is a huge problems in families tath live with some one who doesn;t remembr everthing they do when they drink. They spend money they should not and blame the 'co-dependant" for thir problems. then the wife, the kids, the secretary all end up becoming "sicker" taht the one addcited. yet, we cover for them. I learned this in Ala NOn who will make the statement far better than I did here.
I don't think any one can blame martha for what ever her reactions were to him being drunk. I saw him drunk so many times out side the church. I saw him get drunk when we were at his home for a very nice meal once.
( Oh yes, theri home in 1969 was rich! I have seen other preachers/ wives over the decades who had been dirt poor then rose to wealth and fame. they felt entitled to riches as they had sacrified for god's sake for so long. the adorning crowds go to their heads adn there is nothing spiritual about it, so they lie and they cover up.)
I don't want to say names of late leaders from Ananhiem ( they were in other ciites as well) but from the time I met them in the early years of the walk several stated, "I get my best revalations when I am high." Every one seemed to laugh it off as funny because they had "feedom in the spirit". that did not make since to lttle old hilly billy me, but it seemed to be the norm in my eyes.
I had to keep my mouth shut or I was accused of "having a critical spirit" when I wanted to know why the moral rules and biblical virtues had different standards for Iowans than it did for the California group.
I am from Christian Tabernacle but that does not make me more of saint... just more naive to the world. I'm just saying that I was taught differently than the values I saw being acted out by the CA youth group who later years became leaders in the church. I haad to have a lot of reputable therpay to learn I was being manipulated by liars. But I ocudl learn to say "no" and wak away.
I think JRS enjoyed flirting with good looking woman. That is not a sin in itself, but a cultural standard for those who had adopted a Califonia life style. (Yikes look at current news. The standard practice is now "sexau abuse" in court and we are all confused.)
I know he flirted with my mother and Iowa church women confessed they were jealous of her. ( JRS had a confession sesion one time where people were go to those and confess their bad feelings towards others...turned out to be a bitter disaster in that cultish practice)
To have woman looking up to him or enjoying, at minimum, a flirtation had to have feel good to the man. As a teenager focusing so much on the Bible I know that the old timers had confirmed his story he really did not fit in with peers when he was a very young preacher JRS was human. He was just a man, not a god.
I am not condoning nor am I condemning the man. He was human. Very human and I think at some point those who wrongly worshipped him ( a movie star idol level) have to take responciility for building that " monster" every bit as much as he seemed to thrived on that cult leader postision he grew into. It was :our" choice to idolize JRS. ( Except me. I'm perfect... more like perfectly naive.)
Secrets and lies end up deadly no matter how much you cry Lord, Lord, quote scripture or raise your hands in praise. "We" all were codependent every bit as much or worse than the wife who call her husband in sick to his boss when he is really nursing a hang over. The Walk had 1,000's of member whose adoration got out of balance.
Yep, those rumors were probably sKewed to a better version than reality from the perspective I personally witnessed at a limited level.
I remembr when I went to South Gate adn teh Valeey for my sisiter's weddings that Marilyn seemed more tahta secretray. At age 18 my thought was Della Street and Perry Masson. If I was young a down right dumb to the ways of the world and I could see the relationship why did no one else see it and nipped it in the bud? Every other church would have defroked him for moral perpatude.
I know far less than many who were right under his nose did. (There was far more going on that what I wrote here my late sister revealed about his golden boys in the late 60's.)
I did see that you did find the other group some time ago I jsut got approved to join. But since this is here I want to address a few things from my perspective. in case someone else can beneift from waht I have to say.
JRS was an alcoholic. I saw attempts to cover it up like they did other alcohol and drug issues in Anaheim. ( My late ex husband was one that was covered up as well.) Fact: there were a number over dsoe deats adn suicides. I have no idea how many arrests for drug dealing in Anaheim.
People new, yet nothing was done. (After a point the pfierfers did offer counceling to couples who were dealing with the substance/ alc issues and apeared to have the perfect kingdom marriage. Brenda said, "We are all children of an alcohlic father." That was in repsonce to my lament that I thought my kingdom marriage would be like Father's Know Best. That beloved actor looked perfect dad on TV but had a lot of horrible secrets due to his alcoholism
My work schedule as an RN dictated when i arrived or left a meeting. This accidnetally afforde me the oppotunity to see when the enterage arrived. They were lieterally carrying him in like you would pour a drug into a taxi when the bar closed.
I asked some one. (I had already known since the alte 60's that he loved fine liquor. My family was a guest in his home back when.)
The answer given to me was that JRS was under heavy assualt from neph spirits trying to kill him. I may be naive but I am pretty sure I know a realy drunk person when I see one no matter how they try to deny it.
On a personal level I was dealling with a drunk in my home. When I went to the brothers for ministry they called me a "bitch". They were all covering for thier own addictions.
In my opinion, Martha was having a problem dealing with her own alcoholic far before I married a sneaky drunk who talked liek an oricle from God.
There is a huge problems in families tath live with some one who doesn;t remembr everthing they do when they drink. They spend money they should not and blame the 'co-dependant" for thir problems. then the wife, the kids, the secretary all end up becoming "sicker" taht the one addcited. yet, we cover for them. I learned this in Ala NOn who will make the statement far better than I did here.
I don't think any one can blame martha for what ever her reactions were to him being drunk. I saw him drunk so many times out side the church. I saw him get drunk when we were at his home for a very nice meal once.
( Oh yes, theri home in 1969 was rich! I have seen other preachers/ wives over the decades who had been dirt poor then rose to wealth and fame. they felt entitled to riches as they had sacrified for god's sake for so long. the adorning crowds go to their heads adn there is nothing spiritual about it, so they lie and they cover up.)
I don't want to say names of late leaders from Ananhiem ( they were in other ciites as well) but from the time I met them in the early years of the walk several stated, "I get my best revalations when I am high." Every one seemed to laugh it off as funny because they had "feedom in the spirit". that did not make since to lttle old hilly billy me, but it seemed to be the norm in my eyes.
I had to keep my mouth shut or I was accused of "having a critical spirit" when I wanted to know why the moral rules and biblical virtues had different standards for Iowans than it did for the California group.
I am from Christian Tabernacle but that does not make me more of saint... just more naive to the world. I'm just saying that I was taught differently than the values I saw being acted out by the CA youth group who later years became leaders in the church. I haad to have a lot of reputable therpay to learn I was being manipulated by liars. But I ocudl learn to say "no" and wak away.
I think JRS enjoyed flirting with good looking woman. That is not a sin in itself, but a cultural standard for those who had adopted a Califonia life style. (Yikes look at current news. The standard practice is now "sexau abuse" in court and we are all confused.)
I know he flirted with my mother and Iowa church women confessed they were jealous of her. ( JRS had a confession sesion one time where people were go to those and confess their bad feelings towards others...turned out to be a bitter disaster in that cultish practice)
To have woman looking up to him or enjoying, at minimum, a flirtation had to have feel good to the man. As a teenager focusing so much on the Bible I know that the old timers had confirmed his story he really did not fit in with peers when he was a very young preacher JRS was human. He was just a man, not a god.
I am not condoning nor am I condemning the man. He was human. Very human and I think at some point those who wrongly worshipped him ( a movie star idol level) have to take responciility for building that " monster" every bit as much as he seemed to thrived on that cult leader postision he grew into. It was :our" choice to idolize JRS. ( Except me. I'm perfect... more like perfectly naive.)
Secrets and lies end up deadly no matter how much you cry Lord, Lord, quote scripture or raise your hands in praise. "We" all were codependent every bit as much or worse than the wife who call her husband in sick to his boss when he is really nursing a hang over. The Walk had 1,000's of member whose adoration got out of balance.
Yep, those rumors were probably sKewed to a better version than reality from the perspective I personally witnessed at a limited level.
I remembr when I went to South Gate adn teh Valeey for my sisiter's weddings that Marilyn seemed more tahta secretray. At age 18 my thought was Della Street and Perry Masson. If I was young a down right dumb to the ways of the world and I could see the relationship why did no one else see it and nipped it in the bud? Every other church would have defroked him for moral perpatude.
I know far less than many who were right under his nose did. (There was far more going on that what I wrote here my late sister revealed about his golden boys in the late 60's.)