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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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There is one thing in Living Word Fellowship that does make very good sense. That is the marriage check outs. Read below:

Animal husbandry is the management and care of farm animals by humans for profit, in which genetic qualities and behavior, considered to be advantageous to humans, are further developed. The term can refer to the practice of selectively breeding and raising livestock to promote desirable traits in animals for utility, sport, pleasure, or research.[1]

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I was being a little sarcastic, or at least, satirical when I compared marriage checkouts with animal husbandry. By the way, you could certainly add arranged marriages to that, I had forgotten those. But if you really think about it, how much concern did the "shepherds" have for the happiness of the "sheep" when they decided who should marry who? In animal husbandry, the OWNERS of the ANIMALS which SHEEP will mate with which SHEEP, for the financial advancement of the owners, not for the health and well being of the sheep.

Really, what was the motivation behind the marriage checkouts, and of any 'strongly' suggested marriage arrangement? Was it not so that the SHEEP would make pair of followers that would produce a litter of more followers, family units that enforce the ideals of the Living Word Fellowship upon one another, keeping one another in line, twenty four hours a day? Or was it that they believed that they had the spiritual maturity to help the members of the church have a higher quality life?

I hope there are Living Word "sheperds" reading this, it would be nice if they would question their own motives.

As I said before, I have a friend that stayed in Living Word all of these years. When our local church broke up, one of the families moved to another church and stayed. When I knew the man thirty years ago he formed thought out opinions, he had a pretty strong knowledge of the scriptures, a very logical person. Talking to him now is much different. The walk talk is there, the walk vision is there. I believe it is very subtle, how the members just seem to grow into a mold, and stay there. I wonder how many people there have sat in their seats and taken notes of what is said at the pulpit, and never after all this time, realized that what is said is only carefully extracted partial truths.

It is a shame that people who sought a relationship with the Lord, ended up knuckling under someone with an agenda, it's a shame that these people that wanted to support the Kingdom of God, just spent their time and money to supply several mansions to greedy double talkers. I can not fathom such a loss of life.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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My last post for a while. I do not want to hog the forum. I'll take off about a week or two. I just wanted to add, that my friend that I am referring to is just as intelligent as he ever was. The people in the Walk are intelligent people, there are professionals of all sorts, lawyers, doctors, all sorts of skilled craftsmen.

The problem is not intelligence. The human mind has the capacity to submit itself to any sort of system of thought that they are conditioned to think is right. The leadership of the Walk was put in power because A-Hargrave was set in a high position by John Stevens. And B- more importantly Marilyn was married to him. In the Living Word conditioned mindset, there are spiritual bonds when someone is married to someone else. They believed that because Marilyn was married to JRS, there is a certain amount of anointing that was transferred to her.

There was no chance that after John's death that Marilyn would have just become a member of the fellowship in the same capacity that she had before she married him. It is actually very similar to the European system of a royal family.

You will see Rick Holbrook walk right into the super anointing if Marilyn dies, and if she dies while Hargrave is alive, it will be interesting how the cards fall again. The power struggle with begin again, the split will come again, and Hargrave might be out the door. I wonder who will get the massive wealth when Marilyn dies...

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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And for those of us who didn’t buckle under, we were labeled as rebellious contaminates. Witches, Sons of Anak, Sons of Korah, stains, blemishes, less than human, evil offspring, hated of God, anti-christ, full of witchcraft, demon possessed, deserving of punishment, needing to be shunned and banished and prayed against.

And so it takes thirty years to reprogram the brain into realizing that it was all bull sh*t.

And now there’s healing because we have the correct understanding and are on the right course. (Matt 13:12-17)

And now we’re free and God lives in our spirit once again whether we go to church or not.

And now it’s all about feeling “normal” in a mainstream whosoever sort of way.


(Apostle Dog: Fortunately after being gone thirty years, not much of that wealth (proportionately) came out of our pockets; if that is any consolation.)

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I received an interesting note from someone in San Diego:

The San Diego church is not healthy. There are terrrible reports about the Larsens. Especially Gilee Larsen who has become the Marilyn-empowered monster down there. An ex-LW-elder said that in the whole history of the walk, these are the worst cases of spiritual abuse he has ever seen. Gilee has become really mean and nasty to people. If you don't bow down and kiss her ass as the representative of Marilyn, you get blasted, or shown to the door. The numbers are dwindling quickly down there.

Some stirrings about a possible lawsuit, as there appears to have been a line crossed. One person who left recently, automatically became an enemy of the fellowship and special meetings were held to warn the remaining congregants to not talk to this person. Bruce Larsen was quoted as saying:
"...if you even have thoughts about wanting to talk to XXX, you should take your hands and put them around your own neck and strangle yourself until
you pass out and those thoughts go away." This "word" is now part of the SD church reference library and church members (who were not at that service) are supposed to go and sit in a room with a librarian (or Gilee) and listen to the CD recording of this service. It is mandatory listening. I think this looks
like a good case of defamation of character. I'm pretty sure there is a good shot at something regarding the "alienation of affections" with his kids, as Gilee has convinced both of his daughters that he is of Satan and they are not to talk to their father.

Another change that has happened is that now, all churches send all of their funds to the central LW trust. There are almost no local funds being kept in local bank accounts. Some think this "centralization" of the finances is G&M getting ready to collect it all to them. And maybe the trust is a further protection from lawsuits at the local level. Maybe G&M keep their "hatchet-boys" in place, so they have "plausible deniability" if something goes wrong at the local level. They can claim that they didn't know this was going on. (However, it is clear that they know, since many have communicated this to them)

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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In light of your latest comment Paleface...I'm now wondering if I have understated the deranged mentality of these church leaders--Gary Hargrave, Marilyn Hargrave, Rick Holbrook, the Larsens etc.

In my heart I wish that whatever assets/funds these people have accumulated on the back of the congregants could be seized, liquidated and used to help those who have suffered under the regime. Provide professional counseling (conducted by someone with no connections to the church). It would also be nice if ministries that were pressured out of the fellowship after serving in the ministry for 30+ years could have at least a meager pension to fall back on. But I suspect the odds of the above happening--even if someone was successful in a suit against TLWF--are likely very low. Thank God this forum exists to at least bring to light what has been going on...and dissuade anyone who is thinking of joining.

The evil get more evil...

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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The onerous fruit produced by this cult is becoming second to none. Taking seriously anything interpreted, written, spoken or promulgated by them is totally foolish and nearly unforgivable.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I know that I am taking a little self imposed break, but I ran up on this. I had to post it here.


"... there is much truth in the Italian saying, 'Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.'" -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In light of your latest comment Paleface...I'm now
> wondering if I have understated the deranged
> mentality of these church leaders--Gary Hargrave,
> Marilyn Hargrave, Rick Holbrook, the Larsens etc.
>
>
> In my heart I wish that whatever assets/funds
> these people have accumulated on the back of the
> congregants could be seized, liquidated and used
> to help those who have suffered under the regime.
> Provide professional counseling (conducted by
> someone with no connections to the church). It
> would also be nice if ministries that were
> pressured out of the fellowship after serving in
> the ministry for 30+ years could have at least a
> meager pension to fall back on. But I suspect the
> odds of the above happening--even if someone was
> successful in a suit against TLWF--are likely very
> low. Thank God this forum exists to at least bring
> to light what has been going on...and dissuade
> anyone who is thinking of joining.
>
> The evil get more evil...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know of some churches, not affiliated with the Walk that closed down suddenly, just a pastor walking in and saying, "this church is closed, this is the last Sunday, I gave all the money to the "mission field." I don't know what happened to church property, they must not have had it paid for.

I researched it some on the internet and it seems that if churches close the people that gave to build them have no recourse, because church contributions are tax deductable, they gave, and it is gone, they should know what they are giving to, that's it.

As far as the leadership gaining financially on it, that is a felony. Remember Jim Baker? But in the case of these leaders, nobody will say a word, they will just wander off and lick their wounds. They have drunk the kool-aid, for too many years they have "repented until they got a revelation" of what ever they were told.

They did one thing right, and here is the shame, they did walk in the word they got, they gave themselves wholeheartedly. They even believed John when he said,"even if the shepherd is wrong, if you submit, God will honor you." But no, not true.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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According to Young’s Analytical Concordance (one of the books I didn’t burn after exiting the Walk) we have the following small sample of words used by the First Christ while on earth:

Church --- Used three times all in Matthew.

Submit --- Zilch, Zippo, Big Fat Zero.

Submission --- Zilch, Zippo, Big Fat Zero, not even used in the whole New Testament.

Without question the First Jesus is more important than anyone sent later (John 13:16). The Christs in the Flesh and designated minion shepherds of the cults readily expose themselves as false and not the real deal by their own vocabulary. Unlike the First Jesus, these false ones are unable to communicate without using the above three words constantly.

Re: Christ Circle, Boulder Creek, CA, early to mid-1970's

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Well, I too have just stumbled onto this site and the memories aren't good at all.

I lived in Albany, Western Australia and was part of our local Catholic church when this mob turned up in the late 80's.
Although I was completely taken in by what seemed to be good people who needed help, I paid the ultimate price letting this lot into our family and our lives.
I don't want to go into the details suffice to say, Hemple was a liar and a thief. He could lie his way out of a concrete cell - which he did in Australia and the government was stupid enough to let them stay. A few of their members had US warrants out for their arrests, they had a pedophile among them and it was he who ended up in court and he is still here in Australia. They put up a convincing religious front only to be defrauding social security, ripping off the church - talk about wolves in sheep's clothing. They left in their wake a travesty of trauma.
Hemple said that women had no souls and the only way to heaven for them was through someone like him! What the...?

They had a young girl living with them, she was Grace's daughter.. she was abused and mentally tormented as were some of the other women.
As in most cults, there is the ever present meglamaniac (Hempel)and his side-kick Lawrence.. the dirt gets deep on those two.

If I sound a little peed off, you're right, if it's one thing I really dislike and that is folks that go around with the bible in one hand while sleeping with the devil.

He died of cancer - oh no, it turns out that he was ONLY human - he wasn't God after all...

I approached Laurence because he seemed like he had some intelligence, when I asked him what the hell do you stay here for and his reply was (and I quote) "he is the closest thing to God I know"... I then knew that the whole group were under his spell, a cult in every way!

There was a family there, father, mother, daughter, who left their 3 sons back in the US to follow this nutter... one day I hear Marilyn crying (the mother) she had received news that her youngest son had just taken his life back home. Tell me folks who does that to their children? What mother abandons her children? They had been on the go from the US for nearly 10 years from the information we could get, so she left him very young.. to follow some misguided religious zealot that had lost all sense of reality.

They professed to be celibate - what a crock that is... it was not until I moved in that I began to see the lie. They were very practiced at 'pretending' to be a celibate Benedictine community - B.S is all I can say.

Now Laurence and Grace are a number out in NZ taking the 'Steadfast' boat that Laurence built and running business making money which is what they are good at - and they are good at taking things that aren't theirs as well. Whats left of the group moved recently South of Perth, they had sold the winery they had and I only just found out that they had moved. I know that they are all old now, they have escaped paying for their wrong doings'(or have they???) i have no idea whether they were going to eventually join the other 2 in NZ - I always knew there was something going on with Grace & Laurence - don't get me wrong, I really don't give a hoot whether they hook up or not, what I don't like is the constant denials and lies about who they really are! If you're a religious community, fine, but don't use it as a front for other intent..at least stop lying!

Some may say I'm bitter and angry, and yep some of that is true my family paid a high price for their lies and deceit, however, that was back in 1990. I have since taken responsibility for being part of this cult. Hempel knew my weaknesses, he knew how he could hook me in and I obliged. But nearly 25 years later I have made it a priority to understand why I was drawn to such an abusive individual and much therapy later I work with young people so that they have enough of a strong sense of themselves that there is less chance of being sucked in by these types of people.

Maybe to all those who thought they were a great lot, all I can say is that maybe those were the early days before it completely went to his head.. we heard stories about young people taking their lives back in Boulder CA, when they had the ranch there. He openly supported 'Jones town' and said he knew the guy well and he was a good man!!! REALLY??

If you got one of the women on a 'bad' day they would tell all! Hempel's wife and son, tragedy for sure - says something about the old so-n-so!

Anyway if anyone wants to know about any family member that may have been there I am happy to write. The child that was with them was removed by Child Welfare but I have a feeling eventually they 'sucked' her back.


"Mother Sarah" also had a daughter, Alyce. Alyce had a son which was her way of escaping the group, trouble with that was the guy she got with was as bad as Hempel, I bumped into her in about 2001 and she had a new partner and another little one, she would only have been just 20 year old maybe. My understanding is that she had other siblings that had left the community earlier in the US.

If anyone knows Graces family, I had contact with them in the mid 1990's and they wanted to know where Letitia (Graces daughter)was. We actually made contact with her biological father, but have since lost those contacts.

I think I will leave it at that, if anyone wants further info from the group's time in Australia I am happy to chat.

Cheers, Elizabeth Olszewski

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Also, if you're going to demand that someone submits their life to you, it would nice if you would have something of value to offer, such as being an example of what a real 'walk with God' looks like. So many congregants unwittingly became victims of 'mentors', backed by Gary and Marilyn, that were just dysfunctional nut jobs. Hey, I was pretty nutty back in the day, but fortunately wasn't motivated to be viewed as Christ in the flesh, sparing some people of additional misery. Almost all of my progress in learning the rudiments of life came after I left the fellowship.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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When you come to a place where submission to shepherds violates your conscience and requires you to serve two masters with Jesus becoming less, it's time to move on.

This link on shepherding/discipleship might help someone [www.cisneoinc.org]


cisneoinc.org/articles/Shepherding.htm

Re: Christ Circle, Boulder Creek, CA, early to mid-1970's

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Take care of yourself. Always look after your own safety and wherever possible check the background of anyone you meet with.

Meet in a public place and let someone at home know where you are going and when you plan to return.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I see on one of the Living Word sites it says that John Robert Stevens had a doctorate degree. Others tell about the small bible college that he went to for a few semesters. Now it doesn't matter to me if he went to school at all or not, I am just pointing out the way Living Word can't get their story right, and they really don't feel like they have to, they think they are above that, and anything they say will be accepted because it usually is.

One other thought I will put in one post, so I won't post too much. My mind keeps going back to that dream that JRS said he had about a younger man running the Walk and being a brutal leader. (I guess he didn't think of his beloved right at his side) but anyway, it turned out that dream may well have been fulfilled, and if so, then I wonder if JRS might have had that realization before he died.

There is sadly enough vindictiveness in me to hope that he did know it. I know he didn't make any video like Marilyn liked about it, setting her in, but it didn't have to be done officially, it is a no-brainer that she would be in charge with the mindset of the people, and the mindset of the people was created by John Robert Stevens. JRS built the walk, and JRS brought it down.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I made another boo boo, where I said " I know he didn't make any video like Marilyn LIKED about it, setting her in,,,,," I meant to say there was no video showing JRS setting Marilyn into anything, like she TALKED about. Even if there were, and she just decided not to show it after she said she would, it doesn't matter. When John Stevens married her, he basically made her the QUEEN because he certainly was, in the minds of his followers the ultimate KING. There was no way anybody was going to step into the POSITION of leader of that mess without her being part of it.

I said before that I have heard from reliable source that Marilyn approached at least one brother that was well thought of in the Walk, for him to divorce his wife and marry her. Gary Hargrave was at least the second one in line. Hargrave took the bate.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Here's a link to a 3 minute video on cult tactics/mind control:

[www.youtube.com]



Apostle dog: who was the name of the first guy M approached to marry her? Without a name I doubt it.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I guess it don't matter if I give the name.

First though I want to say, that after I sent that post I felt a little rebuked in my spirit because that is second hand information. I won't give the name of the one that told me this. The guy that supposedly was approached was later divorced anyway, one of those marriages probably that got sideways with Marilyn.

One of the reasons that I am doubting the story is that Marilyn would be the prize in such a situation, not the man. The reason being is that Marilyn had it all already, she had been married to the apostle to the Kingdom of God, that makes her automatically THE ONE to be worshiped in the cult mentality of the Living Word members, simply from the "bond" of marriage, the impartation, the fusion of spirits, all of that whacked out stuff. No, I think it was a case of Hargrave climbing up the latter rather than Marilyn needing a husband due to the religiosity of the Walk, although the religiosity was there, in a hyper way.

The name was Larry Cotton, that is the name that I got. I doubted it myself for one reason, the racial thing. If you notice, Living Word Fellowship is mostly flood of white faces, with the exception of the DC church. I would bet that if there had been an interracial marriage the Living Word would have drummed her out pretty quickly. Besides that, I think Marilyn would know for certain that Larry Cotton would have much more integrity than to divorce his wife to marry her.

By the way, Lily Rose, that is one train of thought I should not have posted, for the above reasons, even though the source is pretty much a sure thing with me. Even good sources can get bad information.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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AD,

There's nothing wrong with sharing secondhand information. Matthew and John quoting Jesus expresses secondhand information. Paul relied on 3rd and 4th hand info.

I recall reading a post on factnet that Larry Cotton was to have been included as part of the mantle of authority with G&M but Larry ended up walking away from it all. The poster (if authentic) seemed to have been at one time an insider so the information about Larry Cotton wasn't widely known. I think Larry Cotton was a kinder, more compassionate person than the others.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Apostle Dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you notice, Living Word
> Fellowship is mostly flood of white faces, with
> the exception of the DC church. I would bet that
> if there had been an interracial marriage the
> Living Word would have drummed her out pretty
> quickly.

________________________________________________

BTW, in the mid 70's, there was a marriage in the Southgate church btwn the organist Susie (white) and Taylor? (black).
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