Happy 4th anniversary of Shalom's post heard 'round the world, the beginning of the end for TLWF. Let freedom ring!
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Happy 4th anniversary of Shalom's post heard
> 'round the world, the beginning of the end for
> TLWF. Let freedom ring!
YES
-------------------------------------------------------
> Happy 4th anniversary of Shalom's post heard
> 'round the world, the beginning of the end for
> TLWF. Let freedom ring!
YES
↧
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Survivors of Eric Pepin or Higher Balance
Are there any former students, survivors, or family members of Eric Pepin / Higher Balance Institute fka Auxien here? I was involved a number of years ago and have just started the process of deprogramming my toxic indoctrination.
He has never seemed to gain a large following or much success but is still selling, holding events, and trying to build a patreon following. He's recently released a flood of 20-year-old material on his podcast called "Rebel guru radio". In these recordings his cruelty, gaslighting and abusive tactics are on full display. He must still be up to his old tricks if he's prideful enough to release this material.
In my opinion, for those who know his language, he admits to the coercive sexual abuse of young men as a spiritual tool used to push boundaries needed to "cross the abyss" For years, I believed his sexual relationships with students were consensual but how can there be consent with such an extreme imbalance of power?
From my experience, Eric Pepin is a man riddled with insecurity who rebrands cruelty as an expedient teaching tool. I was subject to his spiritual abuse and believe any success he has, is built off the exploited labor of his inner circle.
In his recordings you can hear him telling his students that they don't "think correctly". The truth is he doesn't act correctly. He has been at this for decades. I hate that I am still frightened of him.
For those in cult recovery, what has helped you dismantle fear and indoctrination?
He has never seemed to gain a large following or much success but is still selling, holding events, and trying to build a patreon following. He's recently released a flood of 20-year-old material on his podcast called "Rebel guru radio". In these recordings his cruelty, gaslighting and abusive tactics are on full display. He must still be up to his old tricks if he's prideful enough to release this material.
In my opinion, for those who know his language, he admits to the coercive sexual abuse of young men as a spiritual tool used to push boundaries needed to "cross the abyss" For years, I believed his sexual relationships with students were consensual but how can there be consent with such an extreme imbalance of power?
From my experience, Eric Pepin is a man riddled with insecurity who rebrands cruelty as an expedient teaching tool. I was subject to his spiritual abuse and believe any success he has, is built off the exploited labor of his inner circle.
In his recordings you can hear him telling his students that they don't "think correctly". The truth is he doesn't act correctly. He has been at this for decades. I hate that I am still frightened of him.
For those in cult recovery, what has helped you dismantle fear and indoctrination?
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
I wonder what, if anything, the independent investigation discovered. Perhaps by now they know who stole that small box of paper clips from one of the local churches. Really looking forward to the report!
#HighHopes
#HighHopes
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The flying monkeys of oz , finding peace after the deception
Do you remember the words dorthy of the wizard of oz story repeated " theres no place like home " to find she was never was in oz to begin with .only in her mind she was dreaming that she was wished away to the land down under . Small Town girl meets Australia boaty , both fall in love ,he sends for her hand in marriage and God brought them together let No man tear asunder ! The honey moon two people deep in love sharing the sea on a small boat were happy in love UNTILL ! they dared to trust others with their whole lives " Jesus warned us whoever is a friend to the world are enemies of God " but for a time we was one big happy family ! Untill one day 2 pastors one like Able the other Cain fought over who was going to have all the glory . Then the divide began and able started out just a few chairs on the lawn , sweet ,humble ,funny man of God Chosen to be a true shepherd . While Cain declared with fist toward God ! I will take everything that is mine and more ! Your friends ,your family,their children and grandchildren , " how dare you correct me ! I am like God ! You will bow to me he said ! The bitterness , unforgivness,hatred ,and non communication went like a wild fire out of control .it did not happen over night ... The coveting became rebellion ,the rebellion became greed and the greed turned to HATE ! Cain would hold hatred in his heart and eventually slew able !
Cain formed his own cult of personality " my way or the highway " and to hell who it hurts in the end .
And he did not have to preach but a tiny lie of the serpent seed " did God say ?"
JESUS said We shall reap what we sow maybe not on this Earth right away
But the fruit of this man of rebellion has now trickled down deep into the hearts of his own children
He's passing down the business
And refuses to admit he is a sinner and needs to Repent and turn back to Jesus and ask those he has tried to destroy ,their lives ,property ,and their friendship and family
Two Words I'm Sorry I was wrong
Please forgive me .
But this self entitled king of this world may be at the point of no return because of such a unrepentant heart :(
Jesus said if someone has aught against you go to that person and try to seek reconciliation first
True Christians will forgive 70x 7
But the problem with those who waller in sin and rebellion will Run and hide in the dark ,point the finger blaming others and making this false apostle and his son a ensample of
What Apostle Paul warned us in 2 Peter ... Those who love their money ,position on the pulpit , show no humiliation and will not be corrected by those who have been burned by them that are willing to Forgive their enemies ! They are the merchandisers that Jesus warned us about ,wandering stars in the blackness ,reserved for eternal seperation from God UNLESS THEY FORGIVE and make restitution for the sins ( coveting ) greed , and self righteous deeds they committed for following this False Shepherd that has bruised and blooded more sheep than a slaughter house ! But does dot realize the other party is willing to forgive even if they refuse to see their own errors .
God loves whom he corrects
If you love that money ,those houses ,and that game and high position of pride and narcissism you are headed for a fall ...
I have learned that closing my eyes to my surroundings I was in a dangerous N.A.R kingdom now cult
And headed for hell . But Jesus forgave me ,washed me white as snow I am back into the sheep fold of His Safety .. and No Man calling himself Apostolic gifted or blasophming God by stealing from the church members of rockhampton Queensland for His own personal pleasures and favorites is right with God ! He is falken from Grace ! Needs to repent and turn back to Jesus ! The change takes place in turning away from the sin ! Recognizing Jesus Christ Died for him and it's by Faith through Grace we are saved not by works ,crowns or deeds !
We now know that God loves a gracious giver , we gave our friendship ,time and hard work building our home to retire in .we only left because they had turned away from God to bow to a false shepherd taught by c.p.wagner , Jim Jones ,and William Branham
We had no choice but to start all over again from scratch
Unfortunately some Christians still want to say" take the plank out of our eyes ,before they remove their speck ?
Our home is not here in Queensland ,not even in America it's in heaven with Jesus Christ
Those living under the law of Moses
Are Dead to Jesus Christ!
Time to Come out of her my people!
Only by faith through Grace are we saved !
Our space gets smaller and smaller
My husband still labors in love to those who Use him for their personal gain after 39 years !
And we are not the only ones to say
John Alley is a False Prophet
So is his son David
They do not follow Jesus ,they follow the 7 mountain mandate of heresy
And need to Repent
Time will tell those who dare
Play with the flying monkeys
Of narcissistic pride and rebellion
Hope to see you in God's kingdom
Not made by human hands or their spoken words
But the Very Word of God Alone
Shalom. Peace be with you all
Jesus Christ is Lord of All
Cain formed his own cult of personality " my way or the highway " and to hell who it hurts in the end .
And he did not have to preach but a tiny lie of the serpent seed " did God say ?"
JESUS said We shall reap what we sow maybe not on this Earth right away
But the fruit of this man of rebellion has now trickled down deep into the hearts of his own children
He's passing down the business
And refuses to admit he is a sinner and needs to Repent and turn back to Jesus and ask those he has tried to destroy ,their lives ,property ,and their friendship and family
Two Words I'm Sorry I was wrong
Please forgive me .
But this self entitled king of this world may be at the point of no return because of such a unrepentant heart :(
Jesus said if someone has aught against you go to that person and try to seek reconciliation first
True Christians will forgive 70x 7
But the problem with those who waller in sin and rebellion will Run and hide in the dark ,point the finger blaming others and making this false apostle and his son a ensample of
What Apostle Paul warned us in 2 Peter ... Those who love their money ,position on the pulpit , show no humiliation and will not be corrected by those who have been burned by them that are willing to Forgive their enemies ! They are the merchandisers that Jesus warned us about ,wandering stars in the blackness ,reserved for eternal seperation from God UNLESS THEY FORGIVE and make restitution for the sins ( coveting ) greed , and self righteous deeds they committed for following this False Shepherd that has bruised and blooded more sheep than a slaughter house ! But does dot realize the other party is willing to forgive even if they refuse to see their own errors .
God loves whom he corrects
If you love that money ,those houses ,and that game and high position of pride and narcissism you are headed for a fall ...
I have learned that closing my eyes to my surroundings I was in a dangerous N.A.R kingdom now cult
And headed for hell . But Jesus forgave me ,washed me white as snow I am back into the sheep fold of His Safety .. and No Man calling himself Apostolic gifted or blasophming God by stealing from the church members of rockhampton Queensland for His own personal pleasures and favorites is right with God ! He is falken from Grace ! Needs to repent and turn back to Jesus ! The change takes place in turning away from the sin ! Recognizing Jesus Christ Died for him and it's by Faith through Grace we are saved not by works ,crowns or deeds !
We now know that God loves a gracious giver , we gave our friendship ,time and hard work building our home to retire in .we only left because they had turned away from God to bow to a false shepherd taught by c.p.wagner , Jim Jones ,and William Branham
We had no choice but to start all over again from scratch
Unfortunately some Christians still want to say" take the plank out of our eyes ,before they remove their speck ?
Our home is not here in Queensland ,not even in America it's in heaven with Jesus Christ
Those living under the law of Moses
Are Dead to Jesus Christ!
Time to Come out of her my people!
Only by faith through Grace are we saved !
Our space gets smaller and smaller
My husband still labors in love to those who Use him for their personal gain after 39 years !
And we are not the only ones to say
John Alley is a False Prophet
So is his son David
They do not follow Jesus ,they follow the 7 mountain mandate of heresy
And need to Repent
Time will tell those who dare
Play with the flying monkeys
Of narcissistic pride and rebellion
Hope to see you in God's kingdom
Not made by human hands or their spoken words
But the Very Word of God Alone
Shalom. Peace be with you all
Jesus Christ is Lord of All
↧
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
"Today, the people in politics who most often invoke the name of Jesus for their political causes tend to be the most merciless and judgmental, the most consumed by rage and fear and vengeance."
Peter Wehner
-The Atlantic
Note: Yes, this is a politically-oriented post, and should the moderator remove it, I won't object. I might throw my lunch at a wall in a fit of temporary rage, but it will end there. Promise.
Peter Wehner
-The Atlantic
Note: Yes, this is a politically-oriented post, and should the moderator remove it, I won't object. I might throw my lunch at a wall in a fit of temporary rage, but it will end there. Promise.
↧
Re: Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Since 2020 Ching Hai has been spreading misinformation, conspiracy theories, apocalyptic predictions, and outright lies through her videos on www.SupremeMasterTV.org. These include pro-Trump misinformation and anti-Covid vaccine lies. Specifically, she supports and propagates numerous conspiracies and misinformation, including The Big Lie (that Trump won the 2020 election), Qanon’s belief that Trump would return to office, Anti-vaccine misinformation, and junk science regarding Covid. She frequently criticizes the United States Government claiming that President Joe Biden, Vice-President Kamala Harris and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi are possessed by demons and harming America. Ching Hai and SMTV frequently cite Fox News, RT Times and other Propaganda outlets as legitimate new sources.
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Re: What's up about Ching Hai?
Since 2020 Ching Hai has been spreading misinformation, conspiracy theories, apocalyptic predictions, and outright lies through her videos on www.SupremeMasterTV.org. These include pro-Trump misinformation and anti-Covid vaccine lies. Specifically, she supports and propagates numerous conspiracies and misinformation, including The Big Lie (that Trump won the 2020 election), Qanon’s belief that Trump would return to office, Anti-vaccine misinformation, and junk science regarding Covid. She frequently criticizes the United States Government claiming that President Joe Biden, Vice-President Kamala Harris and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi are possessed by demons and harming America. Ching Hai and SMTV frequently cite Fox News, RT Times and other Propaganda outlets as legitimate new sources.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Always remember those who treat you kindly during rough times. Dan and Carol E. filled that role for me in the 80's. I moved to L.A. in the early 90's and no longer benefited from their hospitality.
Extremely uncertain times we're living in now...
Posted by: puddington
Date: March 14, 2018 09:27AM
I agree. This is very sad news. Carol was a very kind human. Very loving person. She will be very much missed.
Extremely uncertain times we're living in now...
Posted by: puddington
Date: March 14, 2018 09:27AM
I agree. This is very sad news. Carol was a very kind human. Very loving person. She will be very much missed.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Just a small dose of the substantial contribution that Richard M. made to the discussion in this forum--especially pertaining to JRS:
Posted by: Richard M.
Date: February 19, 2019 05:33PM
Reepicheep, thanks. I knew Stevens was a phony when I first saw and met him. He wouldn't look at me eye-to-eye and seemed even a little frightened of me. Of course, it later made more sense. But if there hadn't been Marilyn and my kids tied to her, he never would have survived to stand at another sermon . . . But I had my own future and two kids’ lives to consider so abdicated to a lesser course. Absent any formal complaint of coerced sexual or other criminal misconduct, "religious freedom" protects the otherwise guilty until far too late .. . . . You know of Jim Jones and his murder-suicide of his followers, but hardly anyone knows that long before that he had been arrested in a movie theater for lewd conduct by a Rampart Division vice officer. It had been politically attempted to be covered up by a judge and other officials by destroying or pulling all documents, but the arresting officer had kept his own copy of the arrest report. It was made public again after the murders. I know, I forwarded a copy of the only surviving document to the Chief of Police. I say this because it’s also possible that credible and formal complaints of coercion and sexual abuse of minors had long been made on Stevens and Rick that were, or were not, properly investigated . . . who knows?
Posted by: that little red flag
Date: February 19, 2019 06:18PM
Richard M. -
Wow. Thank you for sharing. I, like others that have spent decades living this lie, appreciate your insight and honesty. I remarked to my husband, as I started to read your story, how easy it was to assume and believe that you were the bad guy. I can also feel the heartache of hearing you acknowledge losing a wife and kids to all of the deceit. I'm sure some of the posts here are hard to read, but on the other hand, I can only imagine how validating they are for you. It sounds like you lived a life worth living beyond all of this. Welcome to the forum, and thanks again for giving us additional insight to the maze of the Living Word Fellowship Cult.
Posted by: Richard M.
Date: February 20, 2019 04:16PM
"that little red flag," hello, and thanks. While there was bad stuff going on during my unfortune tenure with this fantasy church, I made some contacts there that had positive and lasting effects for an untold number of southern Californians regarding law enforcement that had nothing to do with the church. I provide that because in spite of the falsity and self-serving that was preeminent and obvious to me, there were some really fine and upstanding people involved. For one, George Pipkin if anyone recalls.. . . he could also fill in more of the story . . .
Regards,
Dick
--
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: February 20, 2019 08:39PM
What a joke. They want to make people think they care to try and bolster the image. It is sickening. In all the years--never did we do anything for the community and in fact were discouraged---it was considered beneath the "real" purpose of God.
Thank you Dick for posting. I remember you and your story makes me very sad. And yet I see your strong character and that you took the high road and being a good person mattered. I too struggle with just trying to be the best person and do right and do it for posterity. It is a hard and lonely road. It is just good that you have gotten this out there especially now.
Posted by: Richard M.
Date: February 19, 2019 05:33PM
Reepicheep, thanks. I knew Stevens was a phony when I first saw and met him. He wouldn't look at me eye-to-eye and seemed even a little frightened of me. Of course, it later made more sense. But if there hadn't been Marilyn and my kids tied to her, he never would have survived to stand at another sermon . . . But I had my own future and two kids’ lives to consider so abdicated to a lesser course. Absent any formal complaint of coerced sexual or other criminal misconduct, "religious freedom" protects the otherwise guilty until far too late .. . . . You know of Jim Jones and his murder-suicide of his followers, but hardly anyone knows that long before that he had been arrested in a movie theater for lewd conduct by a Rampart Division vice officer. It had been politically attempted to be covered up by a judge and other officials by destroying or pulling all documents, but the arresting officer had kept his own copy of the arrest report. It was made public again after the murders. I know, I forwarded a copy of the only surviving document to the Chief of Police. I say this because it’s also possible that credible and formal complaints of coercion and sexual abuse of minors had long been made on Stevens and Rick that were, or were not, properly investigated . . . who knows?
Posted by: that little red flag
Date: February 19, 2019 06:18PM
Richard M. -
Wow. Thank you for sharing. I, like others that have spent decades living this lie, appreciate your insight and honesty. I remarked to my husband, as I started to read your story, how easy it was to assume and believe that you were the bad guy. I can also feel the heartache of hearing you acknowledge losing a wife and kids to all of the deceit. I'm sure some of the posts here are hard to read, but on the other hand, I can only imagine how validating they are for you. It sounds like you lived a life worth living beyond all of this. Welcome to the forum, and thanks again for giving us additional insight to the maze of the Living Word Fellowship Cult.
Posted by: Richard M.
Date: February 20, 2019 04:16PM
"that little red flag," hello, and thanks. While there was bad stuff going on during my unfortune tenure with this fantasy church, I made some contacts there that had positive and lasting effects for an untold number of southern Californians regarding law enforcement that had nothing to do with the church. I provide that because in spite of the falsity and self-serving that was preeminent and obvious to me, there were some really fine and upstanding people involved. For one, George Pipkin if anyone recalls.. . . he could also fill in more of the story . . .
Regards,
Dick
--
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: February 20, 2019 08:39PM
What a joke. They want to make people think they care to try and bolster the image. It is sickening. In all the years--never did we do anything for the community and in fact were discouraged---it was considered beneath the "real" purpose of God.
Thank you Dick for posting. I remember you and your story makes me very sad. And yet I see your strong character and that you took the high road and being a good person mattered. I too struggle with just trying to be the best person and do right and do it for posterity. It is a hard and lonely road. It is just good that you have gotten this out there especially now.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Reshaping the narrative as needed...
Posted by: Saw enough
Date: November 03, 2015 04:13AM
What Larry Bobo said about a Shiloh pastor being interviewed and saying he could not recall praying for John’s resurrection was an example of LWF authority just reshaping their narratives for their own convenience.
Every civilization develops its narratives – its creation stories, genealogies, stories of battles won and how they came to be. Churches are no different. Martin Luther, Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Ron L. Hubbard, the Apostle Paul, Jim Jones -- all claim to have had a unique experience that qualified them to be listened to.
The Walk had its own narrative – none of us were really around during its beginnings, but they involved special prophecies over Robert Stevens, personal appearing of Jesus Christ to him, changing his name to John Robert Stevens, and others. One critic of the Living Word wrote that every time the church was on the verge of a split or crisis, Brother Stevens would have another meeting with the Lord and be able to keep the group going. None of us were there – and we can’t really say for sure if the meetings were real or not.
The big vision of 7 years into the Kingdom came during another time of crisis. John disappeared for an entire day and when he presented the vision to the church later that week he said he’d been so overtaken in the spirit that he had no concept of time or space. The prophets at the Valley church all jumped in with theories of time warps in the spirit, and loud amens to the vision.
Many years after John’s death, a group split off from the church and there discussions around the Valley that one of the Blix girls was supposed to have told Marilyn that she was with John that day and that Marilyn was pissed about it but believed it because the story never quite made sense. Of course, John could have still have been with one of the girls and still had that vision into the future, but he could also have just made up the story as a cover for not being able to account for his whereabouts. Most people just accepted the vision on face value and then based their entire lives on it for the next 30 years. If John did not have the vision, it would constitute a huge betrayal to people who trusted him, even if it was only one episode in a long life of service to God. It doesn’t either invalidate everything he did or let him off the hook, but it’s been excluded from the official narrative. If Gary and Marilyn believed the account of the Blix girl, you have to wonder why they continued to reference the vision year after year, all the way into this year, in fact. Or again, perhaps they did believe her but they also thought that God still gave him the vision. They have remained silent on the matter.
In this modern age, can you afford to say “this vision was not ever confirmed” and still retain your credibility? What if the Mormons were to say, “Okay maybe there wasn’t an Angel Moroni and magic tablets and spectacles helping Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon from gold plates. But the rest of our teaching is sound.”
Along the way there were other teachings unique only to them – the unequal yoke justifications to break up marriages or to remarry, the Mom and Dad era which lasted until they decided that they didn’t want to be everyone’s Mom and Dad, which led to the whole era of designated relationships and mentors and teachings about killing the male spirit, worshiping Christ in the flesh, Lamps of Israel, etc.
Gary has become the interpreter of everything that happens to the group. When John died, he rebuked the people who were feeling a release and peace in the spirit – condemning them for feeling satisfied when they should have been pissed over the lack of fulfillment. Later he said that he and Marilyn had noticed a lack of the spirit of Satan in the warfare, and concluded that it was because John had taken down Satan with his death. This was routinely proclaimed and accepted. Sometime after Gary went to seminary, Satan re-emerged in the teachings as a foe to be fought, and the leadership just revised their narrative again and denied that they had ever taught this. Then when other stories about John emerged indicating that he had not always been “faithful” to Marilyn – even though he was not married to her, Gary brought words citing John’s real sin as being disobedience. When someone like Bob McClane died, Gary turned his memorial service into a rant about how pissed he was that Bob did not overcome his weaknesses. When David Boney died from a car accident, it was presented as an act of bravery by someone who wasn’t afraid to go to the other side.
When Marilyn died, Gary told the people that their prayers had not failed, but that she had been transported to the cloud of witnesses and was still alive and functioning from her place in the spirit realm. He is skilled at handling the scriptures, including the Biblical view of what happens in death and after death. But his is also demanding that the people get rid of any confusion about Marilyn’s death and accept at face value his interpretation of what Marilyn’s death means now.
There are other options of interpretation – she might have died of old age. The healing that the churches had claimed was proof that they’d broken into miracles may have been a simple remission followed by a simple relapse. Her life may have been a mixed narrative of great sacrifices to support John and preserve the Word, and great secrecy and manipulation behind the scenes to get his wife out of the picture and herself as his mate. It could be a legacy of making a lot of people feel included mixed with a violent temper and anger that drove others away. Or pulling the pieces together of John’s empire during a difficult time and making it a more efficient group of churches and yet terrorizing a lot of people who didn’t match up to her demands by creating authorities who would enforce her philosophy of “my way or the highway.”
Instead of being instantly elevated to a place of authority in the cloud of witnesses, perhaps her spirit has been freed from her flesh and she is at rest, better able to see what in her life was true and not true. Maybe she found peace, maybe death just brings an end to all the turmoil. No one knows for certain, which is why most people feel humility when their lives are impacted by death.
A little healthy skepticism or a time of waiting for confirmation of these many narratives might have saved a lot of damage to people’s lives. But they are doubling down with greater certainty than ever before.
In many cases the people followed with a simple, childlike trust even while their leaders were more cynical behind the scenes. The end of bringing forth the Kingdom might justify the means in their eyes. But their willingness to engage in cover-ups and the whitewashing of their own narrative to appear more acceptable to the Christian world doesn’t speak well to a community that claims to be pursuing the truth.
It would help sometimes if these great movements would start by taking a version of the Hippocratic oath to “First, do no harm.”
I am not saying this to “bring down the Walk” or even say that God was not ever in the teachings or activities of the church. But for those who have decided to move on to a different way of life, you should know that perhaps you didn’t just “blow out” or lose faith – maybe you were being led into a better and healthier way of life. None of us can reclaim the time we spent there, but it’s still possible to have a meaningful life apart from their heavy hand.
Posted by: Saw enough
Date: November 03, 2015 04:13AM
What Larry Bobo said about a Shiloh pastor being interviewed and saying he could not recall praying for John’s resurrection was an example of LWF authority just reshaping their narratives for their own convenience.
Every civilization develops its narratives – its creation stories, genealogies, stories of battles won and how they came to be. Churches are no different. Martin Luther, Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Ron L. Hubbard, the Apostle Paul, Jim Jones -- all claim to have had a unique experience that qualified them to be listened to.
The Walk had its own narrative – none of us were really around during its beginnings, but they involved special prophecies over Robert Stevens, personal appearing of Jesus Christ to him, changing his name to John Robert Stevens, and others. One critic of the Living Word wrote that every time the church was on the verge of a split or crisis, Brother Stevens would have another meeting with the Lord and be able to keep the group going. None of us were there – and we can’t really say for sure if the meetings were real or not.
The big vision of 7 years into the Kingdom came during another time of crisis. John disappeared for an entire day and when he presented the vision to the church later that week he said he’d been so overtaken in the spirit that he had no concept of time or space. The prophets at the Valley church all jumped in with theories of time warps in the spirit, and loud amens to the vision.
Many years after John’s death, a group split off from the church and there discussions around the Valley that one of the Blix girls was supposed to have told Marilyn that she was with John that day and that Marilyn was pissed about it but believed it because the story never quite made sense. Of course, John could have still have been with one of the girls and still had that vision into the future, but he could also have just made up the story as a cover for not being able to account for his whereabouts. Most people just accepted the vision on face value and then based their entire lives on it for the next 30 years. If John did not have the vision, it would constitute a huge betrayal to people who trusted him, even if it was only one episode in a long life of service to God. It doesn’t either invalidate everything he did or let him off the hook, but it’s been excluded from the official narrative. If Gary and Marilyn believed the account of the Blix girl, you have to wonder why they continued to reference the vision year after year, all the way into this year, in fact. Or again, perhaps they did believe her but they also thought that God still gave him the vision. They have remained silent on the matter.
In this modern age, can you afford to say “this vision was not ever confirmed” and still retain your credibility? What if the Mormons were to say, “Okay maybe there wasn’t an Angel Moroni and magic tablets and spectacles helping Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon from gold plates. But the rest of our teaching is sound.”
Along the way there were other teachings unique only to them – the unequal yoke justifications to break up marriages or to remarry, the Mom and Dad era which lasted until they decided that they didn’t want to be everyone’s Mom and Dad, which led to the whole era of designated relationships and mentors and teachings about killing the male spirit, worshiping Christ in the flesh, Lamps of Israel, etc.
Gary has become the interpreter of everything that happens to the group. When John died, he rebuked the people who were feeling a release and peace in the spirit – condemning them for feeling satisfied when they should have been pissed over the lack of fulfillment. Later he said that he and Marilyn had noticed a lack of the spirit of Satan in the warfare, and concluded that it was because John had taken down Satan with his death. This was routinely proclaimed and accepted. Sometime after Gary went to seminary, Satan re-emerged in the teachings as a foe to be fought, and the leadership just revised their narrative again and denied that they had ever taught this. Then when other stories about John emerged indicating that he had not always been “faithful” to Marilyn – even though he was not married to her, Gary brought words citing John’s real sin as being disobedience. When someone like Bob McClane died, Gary turned his memorial service into a rant about how pissed he was that Bob did not overcome his weaknesses. When David Boney died from a car accident, it was presented as an act of bravery by someone who wasn’t afraid to go to the other side.
When Marilyn died, Gary told the people that their prayers had not failed, but that she had been transported to the cloud of witnesses and was still alive and functioning from her place in the spirit realm. He is skilled at handling the scriptures, including the Biblical view of what happens in death and after death. But his is also demanding that the people get rid of any confusion about Marilyn’s death and accept at face value his interpretation of what Marilyn’s death means now.
There are other options of interpretation – she might have died of old age. The healing that the churches had claimed was proof that they’d broken into miracles may have been a simple remission followed by a simple relapse. Her life may have been a mixed narrative of great sacrifices to support John and preserve the Word, and great secrecy and manipulation behind the scenes to get his wife out of the picture and herself as his mate. It could be a legacy of making a lot of people feel included mixed with a violent temper and anger that drove others away. Or pulling the pieces together of John’s empire during a difficult time and making it a more efficient group of churches and yet terrorizing a lot of people who didn’t match up to her demands by creating authorities who would enforce her philosophy of “my way or the highway.”
Instead of being instantly elevated to a place of authority in the cloud of witnesses, perhaps her spirit has been freed from her flesh and she is at rest, better able to see what in her life was true and not true. Maybe she found peace, maybe death just brings an end to all the turmoil. No one knows for certain, which is why most people feel humility when their lives are impacted by death.
A little healthy skepticism or a time of waiting for confirmation of these many narratives might have saved a lot of damage to people’s lives. But they are doubling down with greater certainty than ever before.
In many cases the people followed with a simple, childlike trust even while their leaders were more cynical behind the scenes. The end of bringing forth the Kingdom might justify the means in their eyes. But their willingness to engage in cover-ups and the whitewashing of their own narrative to appear more acceptable to the Christian world doesn’t speak well to a community that claims to be pursuing the truth.
It would help sometimes if these great movements would start by taking a version of the Hippocratic oath to “First, do no harm.”
I am not saying this to “bring down the Walk” or even say that God was not ever in the teachings or activities of the church. But for those who have decided to move on to a different way of life, you should know that perhaps you didn’t just “blow out” or lose faith – maybe you were being led into a better and healthier way of life. None of us can reclaim the time we spent there, but it’s still possible to have a meaningful life apart from their heavy hand.
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
A few posts from September of 2016:
Posted by: Twoteetwo
Date: September 02, 2016 10:27PM
I'm a sometime reader who wants to thank you all for the years of great posts. I binge read the FactNet site about ten years ago and now here I am again binge reading this site. Don't know what that means other than you can take people out of the Walk, but it sure is hard to get the Walk out of people.
I was a John follower for twelve years in the '70s and '80s. I was sad when John married Marilyn, was sickened when Gary dumped Donna and baby for Marilyn, and was finally ready to call it quits after watching people pledge their undying loyalty to Lamp Marilyn.
It sounds like I blame the Walk's woes on Marilyn, but I agree with some of the posters that the real problem (other than myself) was John from the get-go. He was just so much easier to like.
God speed to you faithful ones here. There are a lot of people reading your posts, and you're helping them. Thanks for your time, your memories, your insight, your vulnerability, and most of all, your humor (bwahahaha!).
Posted by: changedagain
Date: September 05, 2016 01:47AM
Larry:
<Perhaps former members are still trying to work through things that deeply affected them decades ago and are still unresolved. I know I’ve had communication with many where the wounds are still fresh 30 years later – you would think they had left weeks ago instead of decades ago.>
My wife mentioned to me the other day that we've actually been out of TLWF for close to 20 years. Some days it feels like 20 years, a relatively distant memory, other days as though we left "weeks ago." The conditioning from being constantly monitored and controlled--and the subsequent difficulty, once we left, of trusting anything or anyone--is deep. That said, we've made significant strides since leaving that mess, and never have we had any doubt it was the right decision. As I predicted to my wife after it became apparent to the church we were going to leave ('96), the professions of "love" from leadership would come through...and once that proved ineffective, ominous predictions (threats) of what would happen to our lives once to chose the "rebellious path." It didn't sway us--thank God.
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: September 08, 2016 05:24PM
Hi all, I have read to try and catch up--but I can't process much right now. I am going in and out of shock at the actual price I have paid--a dear price--for leaving.
The horror of having lived in that crucible---it is beyond words as I watch my world crumbling into something that will be better than anything I have known since childhood and the brainwashing I endured for over 50 years-- talk about criminal--how is it some person can just walk in to your life and take it for themselves? I don't care how kind or loving he was, he was a sick man and the sooner we all realize that and make peace with it, the better.
I know people who still hang on to the thinking that it was all good until Marilyn. It was not good, not good at all. And if John had not died, it still would have gotten as bad, if not worse than it did under the gruesome control of G and M. I don't believe John would have wanted things the way they became--but he was headed there with her.
Posted by: Twoteetwo
Date: September 02, 2016 10:27PM
I'm a sometime reader who wants to thank you all for the years of great posts. I binge read the FactNet site about ten years ago and now here I am again binge reading this site. Don't know what that means other than you can take people out of the Walk, but it sure is hard to get the Walk out of people.
I was a John follower for twelve years in the '70s and '80s. I was sad when John married Marilyn, was sickened when Gary dumped Donna and baby for Marilyn, and was finally ready to call it quits after watching people pledge their undying loyalty to Lamp Marilyn.
It sounds like I blame the Walk's woes on Marilyn, but I agree with some of the posters that the real problem (other than myself) was John from the get-go. He was just so much easier to like.
God speed to you faithful ones here. There are a lot of people reading your posts, and you're helping them. Thanks for your time, your memories, your insight, your vulnerability, and most of all, your humor (bwahahaha!).
Posted by: changedagain
Date: September 05, 2016 01:47AM
Larry:
<Perhaps former members are still trying to work through things that deeply affected them decades ago and are still unresolved. I know I’ve had communication with many where the wounds are still fresh 30 years later – you would think they had left weeks ago instead of decades ago.>
My wife mentioned to me the other day that we've actually been out of TLWF for close to 20 years. Some days it feels like 20 years, a relatively distant memory, other days as though we left "weeks ago." The conditioning from being constantly monitored and controlled--and the subsequent difficulty, once we left, of trusting anything or anyone--is deep. That said, we've made significant strides since leaving that mess, and never have we had any doubt it was the right decision. As I predicted to my wife after it became apparent to the church we were going to leave ('96), the professions of "love" from leadership would come through...and once that proved ineffective, ominous predictions (threats) of what would happen to our lives once to chose the "rebellious path." It didn't sway us--thank God.
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: September 08, 2016 05:24PM
Hi all, I have read to try and catch up--but I can't process much right now. I am going in and out of shock at the actual price I have paid--a dear price--for leaving.
The horror of having lived in that crucible---it is beyond words as I watch my world crumbling into something that will be better than anything I have known since childhood and the brainwashing I endured for over 50 years-- talk about criminal--how is it some person can just walk in to your life and take it for themselves? I don't care how kind or loving he was, he was a sick man and the sooner we all realize that and make peace with it, the better.
I know people who still hang on to the thinking that it was all good until Marilyn. It was not good, not good at all. And if John had not died, it still would have gotten as bad, if not worse than it did under the gruesome control of G and M. I don't believe John would have wanted things the way they became--but he was headed there with her.
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Cloudwatcher wrote:
I don't care how kind or loving he was, he was a sick man and the sooner we all realize that and make peace with it, the better.
Post by 'fool me twice'--providing a glimpse of John (aka Apostle of Love) behind the facade:
Posted by: fool me twice
Date: March 23, 2019 10:57AM
Onion wrote:
Fool me twice: How many hours did you work to earn that whopping weekly pay? I would estimate at least 60 hours a week.
60 is likely the correct amount of hours. I should add that for $35.00 weekly I got room and board (an unfinished, musty and dirty basement) Once I got my raise to $75.00 a week all living expenses were mine to pay. Yes to be 'selected' for this opportunity to serve my marriage was rushed and we were in Iowa two weeks later.
I had the 'privilege' to work for a different KB as a painter. I did painting on both the JRS home and the Blix house. One day while I was scraping paint on JRS's house, a job that is not only quite dirty but also causes a lot of paint chips to fall into your eyes since no productive gear was a thing with KB's. JRS stepped out of his house and scolded me because I had failed to somehow prevent the paint chips from falling into his flower beds. "That paint has lead in it and that will kill my plants" Not that lead paint could be harmful to you or your eyes. Actually that was the only time JRS said a single word to me outside of a service.
I don't care how kind or loving he was, he was a sick man and the sooner we all realize that and make peace with it, the better.
Post by 'fool me twice'--providing a glimpse of John (aka Apostle of Love) behind the facade:
Posted by: fool me twice
Date: March 23, 2019 10:57AM
Onion wrote:
Fool me twice: How many hours did you work to earn that whopping weekly pay? I would estimate at least 60 hours a week.
60 is likely the correct amount of hours. I should add that for $35.00 weekly I got room and board (an unfinished, musty and dirty basement) Once I got my raise to $75.00 a week all living expenses were mine to pay. Yes to be 'selected' for this opportunity to serve my marriage was rushed and we were in Iowa two weeks later.
I had the 'privilege' to work for a different KB as a painter. I did painting on both the JRS home and the Blix house. One day while I was scraping paint on JRS's house, a job that is not only quite dirty but also causes a lot of paint chips to fall into your eyes since no productive gear was a thing with KB's. JRS stepped out of his house and scolded me because I had failed to somehow prevent the paint chips from falling into his flower beds. "That paint has lead in it and that will kill my plants" Not that lead paint could be harmful to you or your eyes. Actually that was the only time JRS said a single word to me outside of a service.
↧
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
A new documentary being made by two ex-members of this cult. I'll certainly be watching this. Here is the trailer on YouTube:
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: December 11, 2022 01:20PM
A new documentary being made by two ex-members of this cult. I'll certainly be watching this. Here is the trailer on YouTube:
[youtu.be]
**************
Yes!!! Please follow this documentary and share, share, share!!!!
Date: December 11, 2022 01:20PM
A new documentary being made by two ex-members of this cult. I'll certainly be watching this. Here is the trailer on YouTube:
[youtu.be]
**************
Yes!!! Please follow this documentary and share, share, share!!!!
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Haven’t posted for a while but I just finished a book that some might want to take a look at. The title is “Uncultured” by Daniella Mestyanek Young. Daniella was born into the Children of God Cult apparently now called “The Family” and the book chronicles what she went through, how she got out and made a life for herself and career as an army officer and now a successful lecturer and author.
I know this is the TLW forum but there are a lot of parallels here and the book is well written and a good read. People who did time at Shiloh will probably find some similarities.
Happy holidays to everyone.
For those who follow the Let’s Talk About Sects podcast there is an interview with Mastynek Young a couple pods ago. There is also a podcast on TLW a couple seasons back.
I know this is the TLW forum but there are a lot of parallels here and the book is well written and a good read. People who did time at Shiloh will probably find some similarities.
Happy holidays to everyone.
For those who follow the Let’s Talk About Sects podcast there is an interview with Mastynek Young a couple pods ago. There is also a podcast on TLW a couple seasons back.
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Good to hear from you, TheJewel. And thanks for the recommendations.
Your initial post in this forum (I think):
Posted by: TheJewel
Date: January 05, 2016 04:35PM
Hi,
This is my first post here. I have read through all the posts in this thread (a long, long, slog -- but very enlightening).
I was in TLW twice, once from 1970 to 1972 and a second time from 1975 to 1978. All of this was in the San Diego (Coniah Chapel). I actually started "pre-Coniah" in RD Cronquist's garage. I was a close friend of Dave Cokas and came into TLW along with him and a small crowd of people he had with him. I bailed out in '72 a combination of breaking up with a girlfriend and a desire to refocus on an engineering degree (which I did complete eventually).
I rejoined in '75 (with a new girlfriend, this time who I ultimately married at Coniah). Mathew Martinez officiated -- I am curious what happened to him. I left the second time when the intercession (or what my wife referred to as "yelling at God") just got too flippin weird. I remember yelling "WE LOOSE THE APOSTLE" so loud so many times that it should have taken an entire drum of Immodium to tighten him back up. I remember we kept God up really late -- probably ticked him off big time.
It is sad to hear that so many people got messed up in this thing. It was getting freakier by the day around '78. I pulled the plug with no regrets and never looked back. I don't really hold any animosity or bitterness. At the same time, I had no idea that some of the things that are discussed here went on.
Anyway, this is sort of a test post. This is my second try to open an account but it looks like I am in this time. More to come....
Your initial post in this forum (I think):
Posted by: TheJewel
Date: January 05, 2016 04:35PM
Hi,
This is my first post here. I have read through all the posts in this thread (a long, long, slog -- but very enlightening).
I was in TLW twice, once from 1970 to 1972 and a second time from 1975 to 1978. All of this was in the San Diego (Coniah Chapel). I actually started "pre-Coniah" in RD Cronquist's garage. I was a close friend of Dave Cokas and came into TLW along with him and a small crowd of people he had with him. I bailed out in '72 a combination of breaking up with a girlfriend and a desire to refocus on an engineering degree (which I did complete eventually).
I rejoined in '75 (with a new girlfriend, this time who I ultimately married at Coniah). Mathew Martinez officiated -- I am curious what happened to him. I left the second time when the intercession (or what my wife referred to as "yelling at God") just got too flippin weird. I remember yelling "WE LOOSE THE APOSTLE" so loud so many times that it should have taken an entire drum of Immodium to tighten him back up. I remember we kept God up really late -- probably ticked him off big time.
It is sad to hear that so many people got messed up in this thing. It was getting freakier by the day around '78. I pulled the plug with no regrets and never looked back. I don't really hold any animosity or bitterness. At the same time, I had no idea that some of the things that are discussed here went on.
Anyway, this is sort of a test post. This is my second try to open an account but it looks like I am in this time. More to come....
↧
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
I left the second time when the intercession (or what my wife referred to as "yelling at God") just got too flippin weird. I remember yelling "WE LOOSE THE APOSTLE" so loud so many times that it should have taken an entire drum of Immodium to tighten him back up.
I think most of us did the best we could to 'loose' JRS into resurrection life, but apparently it wasn't meant to be. After countless hours devoted to 'loosing' him and 'binding' whatever, we eventually found out that God's real plan was to have JRS bring down Satan with his death. But then, years later, Satan returned again--harassing God's sons and wreaking havoc everywhere. So what was the point of that?
#HisWaysAreMysterious
/s
I think most of us did the best we could to 'loose' JRS into resurrection life, but apparently it wasn't meant to be. After countless hours devoted to 'loosing' him and 'binding' whatever, we eventually found out that God's real plan was to have JRS bring down Satan with his death. But then, years later, Satan returned again--harassing God's sons and wreaking havoc everywhere. So what was the point of that?
#HisWaysAreMysterious
/s
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
A few posts from September of 2015:
Posted by: slandjt
Date: September 17, 2015 09:45PM
(excerpt)
I've been reading these posts for a couple of years and thought I would weigh in now. I came into the Walk as an impressionable young teenager in the late 60s. My parents actually came to a service and then told me I couldn't go any more. I was told by the church pastor and elders that I should lie to my parents so I could continue attending services, which I did. The regret I feel many years later is still with me, especially since the Walk also required that I break my bonds with my parents and family. I will always wonder what my relationship with my parents would have been like had I listened to them. Christmas was now "Saturnalia" and I hurt my parents over and over again by being absent from their home on December 25. I spent many years immersed in the Walk, attending services several nights per week, giving "until it hurts," waiting on the Lord, spending money I didn't have on my Living Word tape subscription, School of Prophets books, etc. Now all these years later I'm divorced, even though JRS checked out my marriage and declared "It's a marriage made in heaven." I regret the years wasted when I could have been completing college and establishing a career instead of screaming "death to the channel" in the LA churches. When I left the Walk soon after JRS died, it was as though I'd fallen into a black hole as I waited for judgment to fall on my head. I was, after all, no longer under the covering of the Walk and had disobeyed JRS and God. My brother is still in the Walk, obeying every command from Gary and Marilyn and the "authorities" at his church.
Posted by: changedagain
Date: September 18, 2015 09:11AM
Wonderfully written, slandjt--welcome to the board. I can relate to your experience, as I'm many that read these posts can as well. I dropped out of college (junior year), cut off all ties from my family for close to 20 years, I gave in a myriad of ways to the "Kingdom," my marriage was arranged etc.
Part of the function of this forum, I think, is to allow those who have suffered in the movement to have an outlet and share their experiences without fear of censorship/judgement (unless you get into preaching mode, of course).
BTW, since John's death, TLWF now seems to welcome Christmas--no longer referring to it as Saturnalia, as John used to. The parading of the Christmas truck is one of the big events of the year. Maybe John will return as Santa!
<I moved on from the Walk a long time ago, and although it will always be a part of my life, I now have a much quieter, peaceful life and a much greater understanding of the human condition.>
beautiful
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: September 18, 2015 11:24AM
Welcome slandjt and thanks for posting! It’s interesting to me the common threads that all of us have shared that are categorically denied by TLWF. For example, being told to lie to your parents – the end justifies the means if your shepherds tell you to do it. Instead of the scriptures having the final say, they are ignored if it serves the purposes of the leader. Divorce has been another issue that has been twisted along these lines. God certainly can heal lives that have gone through divorce, but it is not the preferred path to the Kingdom as evidenced in lives of the leadership. Also, the breakup of families when families are outside TLWF, or leave the group. The real tragedy has been the kids. Gary’s refusal to relate to his own daughter from a previous marriage would be a red flag for most people – all the while encouraging members to call him and Marilyn, Dad and Mom. How can you be parents to someone else when you can’t even be a parent to your own kid? It really is a distorted view of family. JRS had the same problem with his daughters. What would it take for one of us to want to prophesy the death of our kids? That’s pretty sick – and John was the founder of the group! By the way, his prophesy never worked - it was all fantasy, not God.
The whole Christmas thing was new every year – depending on which local church you attended and who the current shepherds were. God was constantly changing his mind. One year it was no big deal, and the next you were banned from elders meetings if you had a tree at home. Then there was Rick, who was a complete law unto himself – the truth was always floating and could never really be known. Only those that worked in the Living Word building were free to do whatever they wanted – including trading wives. (Is Rick on number 4 now? The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.) At least they were getting John’s word out – perhaps more than they realized speaking of a living word – not just a printed word.
We all remember the many services – 17 per week for me at one time including morning and evening intercession. We were allowed to go to college, but the way it was expressed to me was college or the Kingdom – not both. Now they have Shiloh University. I supposed it’s a way to get a college education without finding out there is life beyond TLWF walls and losing control of members. We all faced the fear of reprisal from “God” by leaving – thinking He was going to destroy us. I guess we should have noticed what happened to Martha after all those many months of “Death to the Nephilim!” She was untouched and John died. If you can get to the point where you are not freaked out at the mention of God, He is so much more wonderful than anything we ever knew in TLWF. It really is spiritual abuse and a difficult thing to work through. “Call no man leader, teacher, father – you have one and it’s the Christ” is a scary place to start, but so worth the effort.
Posted by: slandjt
Date: September 17, 2015 09:45PM
(excerpt)
I've been reading these posts for a couple of years and thought I would weigh in now. I came into the Walk as an impressionable young teenager in the late 60s. My parents actually came to a service and then told me I couldn't go any more. I was told by the church pastor and elders that I should lie to my parents so I could continue attending services, which I did. The regret I feel many years later is still with me, especially since the Walk also required that I break my bonds with my parents and family. I will always wonder what my relationship with my parents would have been like had I listened to them. Christmas was now "Saturnalia" and I hurt my parents over and over again by being absent from their home on December 25. I spent many years immersed in the Walk, attending services several nights per week, giving "until it hurts," waiting on the Lord, spending money I didn't have on my Living Word tape subscription, School of Prophets books, etc. Now all these years later I'm divorced, even though JRS checked out my marriage and declared "It's a marriage made in heaven." I regret the years wasted when I could have been completing college and establishing a career instead of screaming "death to the channel" in the LA churches. When I left the Walk soon after JRS died, it was as though I'd fallen into a black hole as I waited for judgment to fall on my head. I was, after all, no longer under the covering of the Walk and had disobeyed JRS and God. My brother is still in the Walk, obeying every command from Gary and Marilyn and the "authorities" at his church.
Posted by: changedagain
Date: September 18, 2015 09:11AM
Wonderfully written, slandjt--welcome to the board. I can relate to your experience, as I'm many that read these posts can as well. I dropped out of college (junior year), cut off all ties from my family for close to 20 years, I gave in a myriad of ways to the "Kingdom," my marriage was arranged etc.
Part of the function of this forum, I think, is to allow those who have suffered in the movement to have an outlet and share their experiences without fear of censorship/judgement (unless you get into preaching mode, of course).
BTW, since John's death, TLWF now seems to welcome Christmas--no longer referring to it as Saturnalia, as John used to. The parading of the Christmas truck is one of the big events of the year. Maybe John will return as Santa!
<I moved on from the Walk a long time ago, and although it will always be a part of my life, I now have a much quieter, peaceful life and a much greater understanding of the human condition.>
beautiful
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: September 18, 2015 11:24AM
Welcome slandjt and thanks for posting! It’s interesting to me the common threads that all of us have shared that are categorically denied by TLWF. For example, being told to lie to your parents – the end justifies the means if your shepherds tell you to do it. Instead of the scriptures having the final say, they are ignored if it serves the purposes of the leader. Divorce has been another issue that has been twisted along these lines. God certainly can heal lives that have gone through divorce, but it is not the preferred path to the Kingdom as evidenced in lives of the leadership. Also, the breakup of families when families are outside TLWF, or leave the group. The real tragedy has been the kids. Gary’s refusal to relate to his own daughter from a previous marriage would be a red flag for most people – all the while encouraging members to call him and Marilyn, Dad and Mom. How can you be parents to someone else when you can’t even be a parent to your own kid? It really is a distorted view of family. JRS had the same problem with his daughters. What would it take for one of us to want to prophesy the death of our kids? That’s pretty sick – and John was the founder of the group! By the way, his prophesy never worked - it was all fantasy, not God.
The whole Christmas thing was new every year – depending on which local church you attended and who the current shepherds were. God was constantly changing his mind. One year it was no big deal, and the next you were banned from elders meetings if you had a tree at home. Then there was Rick, who was a complete law unto himself – the truth was always floating and could never really be known. Only those that worked in the Living Word building were free to do whatever they wanted – including trading wives. (Is Rick on number 4 now? The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.) At least they were getting John’s word out – perhaps more than they realized speaking of a living word – not just a printed word.
We all remember the many services – 17 per week for me at one time including morning and evening intercession. We were allowed to go to college, but the way it was expressed to me was college or the Kingdom – not both. Now they have Shiloh University. I supposed it’s a way to get a college education without finding out there is life beyond TLWF walls and losing control of members. We all faced the fear of reprisal from “God” by leaving – thinking He was going to destroy us. I guess we should have noticed what happened to Martha after all those many months of “Death to the Nephilim!” She was untouched and John died. If you can get to the point where you are not freaked out at the mention of God, He is so much more wonderful than anything we ever knew in TLWF. It really is spiritual abuse and a difficult thing to work through. “Call no man leader, teacher, father – you have one and it’s the Christ” is a scary place to start, but so worth the effort.
↧
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good to hear from you, TheJewel. And thanks for
> the recommendations.
>
> Your initial post in this forum (I think):
>
> Posted by: TheJewel
> Date: January 05, 2016 04:35PM
>
> Hi,
>
> This is my first post here. I have read through
> all the posts in this thread (a long, long, slog
> -- but very enlightening).
>
> I was in TLW twice, once from 1970 to 1972 and a
> second time from 1975 to 1978. All of this was in
> the San Diego (Coniah Chapel). I actually started
> "pre-Coniah" in RD Cronquist's garage. I was a
> close friend of Dave Cokas and came into TLW along
> with him and a small crowd of people he had with
> him. I bailed out in '72 a combination of breaking
> up with a girlfriend and a desire to refocus on an
> engineering degree (which I did complete
> eventually).
>
> I rejoined in '75 (with a new girlfriend, this
> time who I ultimately married at Coniah). Mathew
> Martinez officiated -- I am curious what happened
> to him. I left the second time when the
> intercession (or what my wife referred to as
> "yelling at God") just got too flippin weird. I
> remember yelling "WE LOOSE THE APOSTLE" so loud so
> many times that it should have taken an entire
> drum of Immodium to tighten him back up. I
> remember we kept God up really late -- probably
> ticked him off big time.
>
> It is sad to hear that so many people got messed
> up in this thing. It was getting freakier by the
> day around '78. I pulled the plug with no regrets
> and never looked back. I don't really hold any
> animosity or bitterness. At the same time, I had
> no idea that some of the things that are discussed
> here went on.
>
> Anyway, this is sort of a test post. This is my
> second try to open an account but it looks like I
> am in this time. More to come....
Wow, Jan 2016. I’ve been lurking for a while. I pulled the plug just before JRS bought the farm so I missed all the Gary and Marylyn shenanigans.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good to hear from you, TheJewel. And thanks for
> the recommendations.
>
> Your initial post in this forum (I think):
>
> Posted by: TheJewel
> Date: January 05, 2016 04:35PM
>
> Hi,
>
> This is my first post here. I have read through
> all the posts in this thread (a long, long, slog
> -- but very enlightening).
>
> I was in TLW twice, once from 1970 to 1972 and a
> second time from 1975 to 1978. All of this was in
> the San Diego (Coniah Chapel). I actually started
> "pre-Coniah" in RD Cronquist's garage. I was a
> close friend of Dave Cokas and came into TLW along
> with him and a small crowd of people he had with
> him. I bailed out in '72 a combination of breaking
> up with a girlfriend and a desire to refocus on an
> engineering degree (which I did complete
> eventually).
>
> I rejoined in '75 (with a new girlfriend, this
> time who I ultimately married at Coniah). Mathew
> Martinez officiated -- I am curious what happened
> to him. I left the second time when the
> intercession (or what my wife referred to as
> "yelling at God") just got too flippin weird. I
> remember yelling "WE LOOSE THE APOSTLE" so loud so
> many times that it should have taken an entire
> drum of Immodium to tighten him back up. I
> remember we kept God up really late -- probably
> ticked him off big time.
>
> It is sad to hear that so many people got messed
> up in this thing. It was getting freakier by the
> day around '78. I pulled the plug with no regrets
> and never looked back. I don't really hold any
> animosity or bitterness. At the same time, I had
> no idea that some of the things that are discussed
> here went on.
>
> Anyway, this is sort of a test post. This is my
> second try to open an account but it looks like I
> am in this time. More to come....
Wow, Jan 2016. I’ve been lurking for a while. I pulled the plug just before JRS bought the farm so I missed all the Gary and Marylyn shenanigans.
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