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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Blowout Wrote:
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> What’s going on in Nashville? Is it one extended
> family moving there or is this something of an
> exodus to more conservative waters to reconvene?


No idea, Blowout.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Hi, I just signed up here and this is my first post. I recently had an encounter with Living Word Church of Syracuse NY. I just want to confirm these are the people we are discussing on this forum. I dug up as much info as I could. From what I learned, it was founded by John Robert Stevens. When he died in 1983, he passed it to his wife Marilyn. It would land here in Syracuse in 1972, this is the exact date the Syracuse NY church as on it’s website. Apparently it gained support from ex-hippies in that era. I did a search on google maps and it looks like there are about 18 establishments in the NY, NJ, PA and New England areas (the north east)

I got invited over for one of their home fellowships a few weeks ago. It all started because I sold something on Craigslist and reunited with an old classmate of mine. We graduated high school in 1998. On the surface level, they seems legit and more along the lines of moderate Christians. Then things got more bizarre as time went on. I was not expecting the dramatic prayers and emotional outburst. This set off the first red flag for me as I do not trust emotionally unstable people.

I never returned to the home fellowship, but I did check out some of their online videos. This is when I got a glimpse into what it’s like to attend one of their services. The speaking in tongues started, followed by more emotional outburst. The church here in Syracuse is quite large and it has a good sound crew. I had a pair of studio grade headphones on when I was viewing the videos, and let me tell you, the audio was truly disturbing. It sounded like an insane asylum and I am not even kidding about this. I had no idea those type of congregations were this far north. I thought they were only down south in the bible belt.

I am not a religious guy. I just love experiencing new things so that is why I accepted the invite to the home fellowship. I absolutely knew their intentions of pulling me in. I could just sense it. They grossly underestimated my knowledge of religion. One of my main hobbies is reading/audio books and I’ve been down the atheist rabbit hole of Hawking, Dawkins and Harris and although I’m not a hardcore atheist like them, I am a strong skeptic.

Anyways, I would appreciate some feedback, and just want to know if Living Word Church of Syracuse NY is affiliated with the cult we are discussing here. Thanks!

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Hi Replica900,
I've never heard of any churches affiliated with the Living Word Fellowship, based in the areas you mentioned.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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From December of 2019:

Posted by: larry bobo
Date: December 02, 2019 02:09PM


Since it has only been slightly over a year since the implosion of TLWF really started, this suggestion may still be a little soon for many. I want to suggest rethinking the relationships many of us have had with those who left TLWF prior to a year ago. Whether it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago, at some point, we faced situations that our integrity would no longer allow us to ignore certain situations and we could no longer be a part of TLWF in good conscience. As many have stated, as soon as you disagreed with the leadership, all kinds of lies were spoken about you, so that those still in the fellowship would have nothing to do with you. There was just enough “truth” that people would swallow it, without realizing there was much more to the story. There have been a lot of great people in TLWF that have found themselves wandering in the wilderness – some for decades - still unable to connect in meaningful relationships again because of their wounds from TLWF. They didn’t suffer because of their wrongs, but because of their concern for the right and the wrongs of the leadership.

The “discernment” of TLWF is so skewed when it comes to relationships. Relationships are so vital to our well-being in this life, and when they are missing, it is very difficult to become healthy again. I would encourage ex-pats to re-establish relationships they felt comfortable with – before the input of the leadership. As the skirt continues to be lifted and more lies are being exposed, the lies about those who have been gone for many years also needs to be exposed and re-examined. There are members of the Father’s family wandering in dry places that He cares deeply about. You may be the only one that can reach them, because you were in the trenches together and they trust you.

Just because others have done the wrong thing, doesn’t mean we can’t do the right thing. For those who have found a measure of healing, there can be a genuine flow of restoration to those who are struggling. What some have meant for harm, God can use for our good. Just like war buddies, you can’t go through this level of conflict without deep bonds being formed. We were told bonds were bad – except with the leadership. I’ve come to appreciate that it takes 40 years to form a 40-year relationship. Most of us don’t have that kind of time left to start over again. I’m believing to see our relationships redeemed, as well as still having our eyes wide open with lessons learned.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Excerpt from Wikipedia, which is more accurate:
"Stevens died in 1983. His widow, the former Marilyn Holbrook, married Gary Hargrave in 1984 and together they led the Fellowship until Marilyn's passing in 2015. Many of Stevens' writings, as well as recordings of his sermons, continue to be distributed by Living Word Publications."

Replica900 wrote:
From what I learned, it was founded by John Robert Stevens. When he died in 1983, he passed it to his wife Marilyn.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Replica900,

It's likely that the group you mentioned is not affiliated with The Living Word Fellowship this forum is about. I do know that at one point in the 1970s, there was a church connected to JRS in Claremont, NH. There was also one in Martinsburg, PA. Neither one seems to be operational anymore. The former pastor of the Claremont church left JRS' group years ago and joined another movement. He is presently in Alaska. I looked up the Syracuse church that you mentioned. It doesn't look like it has much in common, but I could not find out anything about that group's history on the website other than the 1972 date you mentioned.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Reepicheep,

Thanks for the reply and info. Much appreciated. I'm going to link you to a page I found about the Syracuse church.

[what-when-how.com]

Also, here is a link to a video on their youtube channel. Go to the end, about 1:41. This is what really set off the final red flag for me. Those sounds the people are making are disturbing and have mental illness written all over them IMO.

[www.youtube.com]

I guess this raises the question where do you draw the line between a cult and church? I see some borderline territory here. I just want nothing to do with people that are of this mindset.

Please let me know of those links work for you, and please offer your thoughts. Thanks again.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Replica900,

Further down the page of the first link, next to last paragraph:

"The name ‘Church of the Living Word’ also designates two other Christian fundamentalist organizations. The first originated as a house group in Euclid, New York in 1972, and with Robert J.Mazur as its first pastor, it gained early support from ex-hippies. It has now expanded to larger premises in Syracuse, New York. It is fundamentalist, with leanings towards Calvinism—affirming the ‘universal depravity of man’ and emphasizing hell—and the Holiness Movement, along with which it advocates the Spirit’s sanctification and the acquisition of’ tongues of the Spirit’. The organization claims ‘many hundreds of members’ and owns its school for pupils of all ages."

I think that is the group that you experienced. Not related to the one JRS started.

As for the other link, I couldn't listen to the whole thing. (Too triggering.) I skipped around. It did remind me a bit of TLWF a long time ago. My guess is that the Syracuse group, like JRS' group, traces it's roots to the Pentecostal movement. Some of the sounds might be speaking in tongues (glossilaia). I also heard a lot of moaning at one point. So we know that the people are encouraged to be very demonstrative in their worship.

I no longer participate in any church, so I'm not the best person to give advice to those seeking a church home. But I will say that the most telltale sign of a cult is the level of control exercised by the leaders. Here is a link that might help: [www.culteducation.com]

I just have one question. How on earth did they get all those people to dress in suits and ties or dresses for church? It's been years since I've seen that anywhere. Could that speak to the level of control? Also, the people on the platform had matching outfits?

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Man sings 'Looking for a city'

[youtu.be]

Note: I could not resist commenting on this clip.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Wow, Changed. That was, uh, so special. Thanks for sharing? ; )

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Reepicheep

You are right, that IS the Syracuse chapter I experienced. Yeah sorry I should have put “trigger warning” on that video link. The audio is truly disturbing. I just saw a Pentecostal church on youtube and it’s pretty much the same. Like I said in my first post, I had no idea those churches were this far north. Thanks for clearing up the confusion about the original Living Word started by JRS. I just find it curious that the Syracuse establishment chose “Living Word”. Why the hell would you name a church that after what the old Living Word had done..

It’s funny you should point out the suit and ties. I was thinking the same exact thing! Totally creepy if you ask me.

I am not even looking to go to church. I’ve always had a fascination for religion, spirituality, philosophy and all that. Personally, I find a lot of good (and bad) in all of those things so I can’t claim affiliation to none of them. I’m very agnostic and skeptical. I just love learning and love new experiences and boy did I get one when I went to there home fellowship.

Anyways, If anyone from the Syracuse church tries to contact me, I’m going to the police. Not even kidding. Gut feeling, they are up to no good, and they disguise it well.

Re: Please help - online survey for Cult/Sect survivors.

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Just curious what is the outcome of the survey?

Martial arts are generally all cults with some cult of personality at top and followers as active participants in cult behaviors harming those who don’t comply, submit or cater to the cults narcissistic endeavors which includes sexually assaulting members, violating every/any boundary possible, using the children in the cult for their survival, spiritual rape, and any means to continue the cycles of violence and abuse while hypocritically preaching higher consciousness.

Daniel Shaw who left a yoga cult speaks well to all these toxic dynamics (see Traumatic Narcissism: Relational Systems of Subjugation) but really it comes down to a few people taking advantage of people in a vulnerable state and other doing nothing whether out of fear, indifference, ignorance, or plain selfish interest.
Where are the people who will prevent these things to happen? We are living in 2022 with the mindset of feudal systems, increased corruption, and people claiming to be people of trust (as “teachers”, as “mentors” violating and exploiting others in plain sight while these “leaders” continue to preach cannibalism, and that their egolessness, higher consciousness and pure souls “need” the small fish to survive. Please excuse me as I go throw up.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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changedagain Wrote:
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Lilith on the necessity of walls/boundaries:

Posted by: Lilith
Date: January 18, 2020 07:05AM


As we navigate our way through all of this I think it’s a good spot right here to remind people that while we can agree that everyone in or out of TLWF are victims not everyone is a survivor. Some survivors are still struggling to make it thru some survivors have made it thru and are now trying to help. And then there are the victims that took a left turn and will continue to victimize others to their benefit either as a method of survival or for their own perverse pleasure. It’s also a good time to remember that we were taught that “walls” and boundaries were bad basically standing us in the middle of the 405 freeway at rush hour naked and thinking it was perfectly okay. It was not okay. Boundaries are good. And not everyone that came out of this sh*tshow is the same and has good intentions. Some that came out of this with nothing and will do whatever it takes to survive. Not all victims are the same. Just something to think about.

Changed, thanks for reposting this. Great PSA from Lilith. : )

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Reep wrote:
> I no longer participate in any church, so I'm not
> the best person to give advice to those seeking a
> church home. But I will say that the most telltale
> sign of a cult is the level of control exercised
> by the leaders. Here is a link that might help:
> [www.culteducation.com]

An excellent resource

Potentially unsafe groups or leaders "come off very nice at first, they go for vulnerable people who are looking for answers, lonely, what you'd call 'normal people.' They're very good at what they do and can get people to believe anything. You might think you'd never get taken in, but don't bet on it. "
-- Margaret Singer, Ph.D

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; And he that ruleth his spirit, than he that taketh a city.

No, this is not taken from a speech, or a tweet, by our much maligned 45th president. It's actually Proverbs 16:32 in the Bible.
I know, you're as surprised as I am. ;)

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I rarely post but have benefited and still benefit from this site. Thank you.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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Good to hear from you, seventies walker.

Posted by: seventies walker
Date: August 14, 2017 05:24PM


First time I am posting. I have been reading and following some of the threads with interest off and on for years

My name is David N.
I left Frangipane's fellowship in Michigan in 1979.I had been there since 1973 when Gruenberg started the local church.I never spoke to Francis again.
Shortly after I left Francis was dumped for not supporting John and Marilyn. Francis later describes Marilyn as the Jezebel spirit in one of his books.
I was in LA for multiple feast visits, Anaheim, Sepulveda, SouthGate. Worked for John Bender in Kalona before there was a Shiloh, building a road to the camp.
After leaving the walk in Michigan, I also migrated to SoCal with my family.
Lived like witness protection for 20 years. No friends, no history, no church. Went to a community church in 1999.
Searched out COHK in 2001, reconnected with some former Michigan folks and stayed around until 2006 or 2007, although a daughter and son in law are active still.
Later

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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From July of 2018:

Posted by: seventies walker
Date: July 09, 2018 08:03AM


GoingRogue Wrote:
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> Coercive persuasion was rampant in the early days
> of the Walk and during the expansion of the
> seventies and early eighties. JRS used "cold
> reading" during weekly ministry services to wow
> everyone with his "Word of Knowledge". I believe
> that this one thing convinced many potential
> converts that JRS had supernatural, divine powers.
> He told people that Jesus had personally appeared
> to him and commissioned him to apostleship. The
> worship and singing in the Spirit made
> participants feel spiritually high and extremely
> open to whatever message followed. The hours of
> loud, aggressive prayer gave members a vested
> interest in the outcome. Once people are
> convinced, trained, submissive and subservient,
> the rest is easy (for the leader).

> As one who has struggled for years to recover from
> this cult, I can say that without a doubt,
> techniques were used and are still used by Living
> Word leaders which are designed to shut down
> critical thinking. Call it brainwashing, mind
> control, undue influence, deception or coercive
> persuasion, the important thing is to become
> educated in cult leader methodology. This can have
> a very freeing effect and also help to avoid
> future problems when confronted with similar con
> artists.

> Thank you to Rick Ross for his explanation
> regarding brainwashing. The resources available on
> this website are extremely helpful for those
> recovering from cult involvement. The forum is
> invaluable as well.

Couldn’t agree more. Thanks for the clarity

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

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I would also like to thank everyone. My only interest in signing up here was to ask about the Living Word church in Syracuse NY I had a run in with last month. I guess they are not affiliated with the original Living Word, but I can tell you, the way they act is damn close. I'm also currently watching de-conversion videos on youtube. The stories I'm reading here and watching on youtube are heartbreaking. I'm gaining as much knowledge as I can so if the opportunity arises, I hope I can help someone get out of such cults.

The push me pull you around effect

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After 10 months of leaving what is dubbed the prophetic council of Australia trying to find peace amongst the storm that we was in we get a phone call from his family asking us why won't we come back home. For 10 months we didn't hear anything and now all of a sudden they're asking is why we can't come back? Nothing like being jolted out of your bed in the early morning hours and hearing the voices of your family calling you wanting to go back to the cult not only is it haunting it hits your heart so heavy and then all those memories are flooding back because they're family we had good memories we had good times there was laughter and there was tears but we realized that the life we were living is not normal. It was not normal to watch our neighbors stop talking to us thinking that we were the enemy. It was not normal to hear that they were stopping guns which shook it to us to the core. The longer we were there the more hesitant I was to leave. There are some days it's worse than others it's almost like a nightmare being revisited. I now have PTSD it does help to talk butsometimes I can't help but cry. Trying to explain to them why we can't come back they are still in that called The Cult of prosperity and women profits that think they're getting Revelation outside the Bible I can only protect my heart keep my hands busy and try to bring new memories in and good memories letting go of the past has been very hard very painful I can't go back regardless. This situation had got worse now it's spreading throughout churches in Australia. Being a Christian is hard it's not glamorous you're not going to get rich or wake up in half airplanes fancy homes brand new cars and mansions at your doorstep. These leaders are snake oil salesmen and it only gets worse going back may seem like it would be better but it's not regardless of how beautiful Australia was and the things that we had like the hammock swing in the front porch the garden are farm animals where my blue heeler could run with freedom without being tied down waking up to the sound of the kookaburs as well as going to sleep with the sound of the last sound of the kookaburra call. It was truly almost a Utopia effect palm trees beautiful exotic birds flying by the sound of people laughing family had turned to enemies. It's a lonely feeling I don't know who reach out to. It seems that there's not many groups that deal with this thing even my psychologist has not heard of it so that doesn't help. Who knows maybe I'll start my own group for people that have suffered call abuse talking about it helps having a group of people that have gone through it is therapy you don't feel so alone I can't imagine how the Jonestown members felt and they lost their loved ones and the ones that escaped barely got out with their life and a few things on there person and reliving that over and over and over thinking well maybe we could have done it another way maybe we could have done this or maybe we could have said that looking back only makes it worse building new memories and having to support from my little church family here there's just a basic Baptist Church nothing fancy and that's all I needed to start with but you live and you learn and you move on and the hard part is not looking back
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