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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 1, 2016, 8:08 am
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Following the money-trail in TLW is a convoluted, carefully-guarded mess. With Marilyn out of the picture and Gary without any 'heir-apparent', much will fall to the Rick Holbrook side of the equation, with all of the ex's that that entails.

As usual, the little people will probably be left out of any calculations.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 1, 2016, 12:49 pm
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From what I've witnessed, the "little people" are actually hated by the LW leadership.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 1, 2016, 5:27 pm
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My perspective was more that many of the ministries seeing themselves as the gentry and the little people were their serfs. Sad, really, that there was a time that I found my self-respect in step and fetching and never seeing any reciprocity. *sigh*

paleface Wrote:
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> From what I've witnessed, the "little people" are
> actually hated by the LW leadership.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 1, 2016, 5:57 pm
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January 30, 2016 — by Gary Hargrave

"Today I had the honor of being a guest speaker at the Monte Sião annual pastors’ breakfast organized by Pastor Adilson Soares from Niterói. Three hundred pastors, ministries, and spouses were in attendance, including leaders of Pentecostal and Evangelical churches. Areas such as Rio de Janeiro, São Gonçalo, and Niterói were represented."

With Gary playing to large audiences away from home, he may eventually consider making it home.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 1, 2016, 8:49 pm
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I agree. I think Hargrave is going to accumulate as much wealth as he can squeeze out of the last thousand or so members and move down to South America. He could live well down there, have a few dozen house slaves, live in a mansion. He could call for a special offering, tell them he wants a cool million above what he has now. They will give it to him. Then they can turn their attention to Rick. He can take it from there.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 2, 2016, 6:52 am
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Is there anyone more tenacious in promoting Hargrave's ministry than Silas? God must be very proud of him!


kBOY Wrote:
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> January 30, 2016 — by Gary Hargrave
>
> "Today I had the honor of being a guest speaker at
> the Monte Sião annual pastors’ breakfast
> organized by Pastor Adilson Soares from Niterói.
> Three hundred pastors, ministries, and spouses
> were in attendance, including leaders of
> Pentecostal and Evangelical churches. Areas such
> as Rio de Janeiro, São Gonçalo, and Niterói
> were represented."
>
> With Gary playing to large audiences away from
> home, he may eventually consider making it home.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 2, 2016, 9:27 pm
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Well I finally completed reading the Woodrow Nichols paper which was very interesting. He has done a lot of research and put together a real nice history of not only TLW but Pentecostalism and the Latter Rain movement as well.

I find it interesting that there is so much discussion of witches and witchcraft. I knew JRS had a really comprehensive library on the occult (I had heard that from RD at one point). The trouble I have with all of the witchcraft stuff is that I have never seen it (witchcraft) work. We weren't able to get the prayers of death to Martha to work, we couldn't get the old man raised from the dead, etc. Has anyone who hangs out here ever seen any of that stuff actually work? No matter how much yelling, fist pumping and stomping we did, no matter how long and how late we did it, as far as I know not a damn thing ever came of it. The only place I have ever seen witchcraft work is in the movies.

In a similar vain, I wonder how many of the books in the JRS library covered techniques for "Cold Reading". In one of my very early TLW services there was a guy named Harold Williams from Brazil who ministered to me and told me things that were pretty impressive but the things that I remember of it could have been things that were easily guessed. I think this is a game they learn to play -- could be wrong but that is my opinion at this point. I think it is a Pentecostal parlor trick as much as anything else.

Jewel
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 2, 2016, 11:52 pm
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I agree with you Jewel. Never saw it work at all.

Chapter 1 of the book "Twisted Scriptures" is titled The Discipleship Game. Very interesting discussion of how shepherds force sheep into thinking what the will of God is. I think the LW uses this trick.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 7:37 am
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TheSarge Wrote:
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> My perspective was more that many of the
> ministries seeing themselves as the gentry and the
> little people were their serfs. Sad, really, that
> there was a time that I found my self-respect in
> step and fetching and never seeing any
> reciprocity.

So true, TheSarge. I have a completely different attitude now...knowing how sick the system is.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 8:14 am
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TheJewel Wrote:

> In a similar vain, I wonder how many of the books
> in the JRS library covered techniques for "Cold
> Reading". In one of my very early TLW services
> there was a guy named Harold Williams from Brazil
> who ministered to me and told me things that were
> pretty impressive but the things that I remember
> of it could have been things that were easily
> guessed. I think this is a game they learn to
> play -- could be wrong but that is my opinion at
> this point. I think it is a Pentecostal parlor
> trick as much as anything else.

The first experience I had with John, and his "gift" of revelation, was a marriage checkout in 1978. Basically, he said we were not ready for marriage, in part, because my future wife (we're still married, a rarity) had a submissive spirit, while I leaned toward independence (a "free-lance" spirit). Sort an unequal yoke, I guess. He used our approach to Golden Threads as an example...that my wife was fully given, while I was mostly hesitant. Following the ministry, I experienced the normal shunning people go through after not receiving a positive ministry from the man of God. Anyway, to this day I wish I had a measure of the extreme independence John possessed--without the deceptive/exploitative quality, of course. It would have spared me a lot of misery.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 8:23 am
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There are double-standards that must be maintained, or "do as I say, not as I do." What's 'good' for the sheep, the shepherds need only 'consider'.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 9:26 am
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kBOY Wrote:
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> There are double-standards that must be
> maintained, or "do as I say, not as I do." What's
> 'good' for the sheep, the shepherds need only
> 'consider'.


Yeah--but I do recall God in the Sky dealing harshly with John...threatening to kill him, on occasion.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 9:29 am
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BTW, I never experienced God in the Sky threatening me, only God in the Flesh. John lived on a spiritual plane I never got close to reaching.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 9:36 am
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I just am not all that sure that John lived on such a high spiritual plane after all.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 9:40 am
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Perhaps it was a delusion of his imagination, or, his conscience catching up to him.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 12:22 pm
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I have heard just a few of the messages by JRS lately, and they are pretty easy in hind site to pick out how he crafted the messages to prove a pre-conceived idea that he had about himself. I think he skillfully wove the illusion, perhaps not to deceive us, but to deceive himself. It really didn't take much to mislead a bunch of misfits that thought they knew everything.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 12:24 pm
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I was reading about the old requirement for being an apostle. I remember that, early on, one of the requirements was that a person had to have “seen” the Lord in order for the calling to be truly apostolic. With the original church, it was men who had walked and talked with Jesus. Then, in the case of Paul, it was a person who had experienced a visitation. In the early days of JRS, it was a visitation (so we were told) by God that created JRS’s calling to be an apostle. As the Walk evolved, others had visitations (sort of). But eventually, the requirement was modified so that a person could be an apostle if they had a revelation (and seen) “Christ in the Flesh”. Those that gave themselves to G&M became candidates for the apostolic company. Now that Marilyn is gone, is there a new revelation target? Like if you recognize “Christ in the Flesh” in Silas or Rick, does that count?

Who are the LW apostles these days? I’ve noticed that the whole title of “apostle” has been down-played in recent LW web pages. Maybe that was part of their sanitizing campaign.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 4:34 pm
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As Paul accidently let slip out, apostles were in the eye of the beholder.

It is a safe bet that Jesus had no intention of starting the monstrosity known as Christianity. In fact, he would probably be it’s harshest critic, and the object of much persecution by Christians for it. Everything he attempted to convey was aimed right at the hierarchical structure that was already lording it over the people.

It is also of note that the qualifications for apostleship were established after his transition, and had nothing to do with anything he taught. Society loves structure, both in and out of religion, so it is no surprise that certain resume standards were necessary to sift out the genuine from the counterfeit.

The great disservice the Holy Jim Canyon ‘revelation’ did was establish a culture of fear that was used as leverage to keep the troops in line. Whoa unto those that strayed afar off, because imminent destruction would be their reward. That is something the GOSPEL of LOVE apparently left out.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 7:05 pm
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Related to qualifications for apostles are the qualifications for church membership.

If God doesn’t appear to you personally and coerce you into joining a church, then DON’T DO IT.
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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens

February 3, 2016, 8:12 pm
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"It really didn't take much to mislead a bunch of misfits that thought they knew everything." Apostle Dog--sometimes you just nail it, and this is one of those times.

"Who are the LW apostles these days?" paleface--I am also curious. In addition to "these days," can anyone offer up a list of all apostles spawned in the walk from day one? Stevens was one, I think Cronquist was. Who else? And do you think Cronquist was offered apostleship as an incentive to stay in the walk after the mine debacle?
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